Question How do i Avoid getting scammed on a PPT Purchase?

[raellic]

I came up with a solution for this: acting as an escrow for PPTs using my attorney trust account. Simple: buyer deposits their funds and they go in my trust account. Buyer and seller meet for buyer's inspection of the item. Buyer refuses the deal? They get their money back, or maybe there is a new selling price that they approve. Buyer and seller then go to a FFL and do the transfer. Buyer is declined in background check? No problem, buyer gets his money back less a restocking fee to seller, and seller gets the item back. Or, FFL delivers item, buyer takes delivery, then seller gets their money from escrow. I also can act as a private judge under the law and resolve any disputes. This is optimal for big ticket PPTs and entire collections. Maybe I should get my FFL and have a one-stop shop. Lol.

 

[kemasa]

I came up with a solution for this: acting as an escrow for PPTs using my attorney trust account. Simple: buyer deposits their funds and they go in my trust account. Buyer and seller meet for buyer's inspection of the item. Buyer refuses the deal? They get their money back, or maybe there is a new selling price that they approve. Buyer and seller then go to a FFL and do the transfer. Buyer is declined in background check? No problem, buyer gets his money back less a restocking fee to seller, and seller gets the item back. Or, FFL delivers item, buyer takes delivery, then seller gets their money from escrow. I also can act as a private judge under the law and resolve any disputes. This is optimal for big ticket PPTs and entire collections. Maybe I should get my FFL and have a one-stop shop. Lol.

There is an easier way, if the FFL agrees, which is to put the cash in an envelope. Once the firearm is delivered, then the envelope goes to the seller.

There would still be an issue in regards to disputes.

The problem is that FFLs typically don't want to get involved with ANY aspect of the money. As well, some think that any aspect of the money causes sales tax to be collected, which isn't the case as long as the FFL doesn't get involved with the price (nor finding the buyer or seller).

 

[DEADPOOL1977]

No deposit! You’re meeting in person, so you’ll be able to see the item and hold it before transferring money. I usually hand cash as paperwork is being signed. If the firearm were to be stolen or anything else, that falls on the seller while it’s being DROS. Is there a small chance this could happen? Sure, but why would the seller put their name on the line. I’ve made nearly 200+ deals on CalGuns and even Armslist when that was a thing, and never had an issue. No reason to be a police sting as long as your going through an FFL

So I come from the Reptile breeding world. We made deposits and payment plans all day long on animals and had to pay in full before they were shipped. Very few fraudsters out there. If they did screw you. The person would put them on blast to the community ruining their reputation.

Point being, sometimes if you dont have cash in hand you need to trust. Same as the seller has to trust you not to flake. All deposits are automatically non refundable and I personally put that into our communication as evidence in case you flake and dont meet our agreement. I also provide a photo of the firearm and my ID in case I scam you.

Trust is a two-way street. Otherwise meet in person, inspect the firearm, pay in full then walk into the FFL to complete the transfer. Pretty straight forward.

 

[DEADPOOL1977]

There is an easier way, if the FFL agrees, which is to put the cash in an envelope. Once the firearm is delivered, then the envelope goes to the seller.

There would still be an issue in regards to disputes.

The problem is that FFLs typically don't want to get involved with ANY aspect of the money. As well, some think that any aspect of the money causes sales tax to be collected, which isn't the case as long as the FFL doesn't get involved with the price (nor finding the buyer or seller).

I purchased a firearm without being present. They arrived at local FFL. I spoke with FFL to confirm receipt of the Firearm and confirmation that they took possession and are ready to ship. I paid FFL and seller via payment methods agreed to. FFL shipped to my FFL. I picked it up no problem.

Don't overcomplicate things with fear tactics or fear mongering. If you are scared then only buy local, but your limiting your access.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I came up with a solution for this: acting as an escrow for PPTs using my attorney trust account. Simple: buyer deposits their funds and they go in my trust account. Buyer and seller meet for buyer's inspection of the item. Buyer refuses the deal? They get their money back, or maybe there is a new selling price that they approve. Buyer and seller then go to a FFL and do the transfer. Buyer is declined in background check? No problem, buyer gets his money back less a restocking fee to seller, and seller gets the item back. Or, FFL delivers item, buyer takes delivery, then seller gets their money from escrow. I also can act as a private judge under the law and resolve any disputes. This is optimal for big ticket PPTs and entire collections. Maybe I should get my FFL and have a one-stop shop. Lol.

Good idea to get your FFL...could even be home-based with your legal expertise as a valuable additional service along with escrow.

 

[ef9boy88]

Verify delivery on undetermined prior to selecting FFL. If possible check out the item in the parking lot, trunk of SUV. Exchange money outside unless FFL is good with it inside.
Not sure where the police sting comes in here, the only questionable piece would be mags of more than 10 rounds, make sure they're either 10 or blocked and you should be good.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

There is an easier way, if the FFL agrees, which is to put the cash in an envelope. Once the firearm is delivered, then the envelope goes to the seller.

There would still be an issue in regards to disputes.

The problem is that FFLs typically don't want to get involved with ANY aspect of the money. As well, some think that any aspect of the money causes sales tax to be collected, which isn't the case as long as the FFL doesn't get involved with the price (nor finding the buyer or seller).

This assumes that nobody at the gun store swipes it in whole or in part. I would rather trust someone who could be disbarred (more skin in the game) than a far more transient LGS employee.

 

[JohntheBaptized]

I recently sold a gun and wondered what if the buyer gets denied because of an issue? Do I get the pistol back? Does the store contact us both to tell us the transfer failed?

I can see an opportunity for the seller to run off with the money and the gun then, but outside of that, I can’t see how a PPT could screw over a person unless a deposit happened, which doesn’t make sense to me. I view weapon sales as first come first served and once the paperwork begins, the money or goods switches hands because the store will then charge for the paperwork.

I get it though. Scummy people take deposits from the inexperienced and run. Honestly, good question OP.

 

[1911-CV]

"Does the store contact us both to tell us the transfer failed?" - Yes
"Do I get the pistol back?" - Yes, but they have to check that you can receive it.

 

[JohntheBaptized]

"Do I get the pistol back?" - Yes, but they have to check that you can receive it.

Thank you! Could you expand on what you mean by that? If I owned the gun previously, why wouldn’t I? I’m guessing another blasted background check?

 

[1911-CV]

You have to do a background and have an FSC card (or exemption).

 

[paddyphi]

Wanna thank you guys for all the fantastic responses. I feel a ton more informed than I did when I first posted.
Will let you know how it goes!

I second that. Good information

 

[CaptainLevi]

Hello, New here: There is a listing here for a GLOCK 19x PPT local in San Clemente
1st I've never done a PPT purchase so I'm not sure how it should go.
Any advise on how to protect myself against getting scammed or running into a police sting?
What steps should I take in contacting the seller and purchasing the firearm.
The FFL to DROS is in my area so I've been there a few times in the past
At what point do I pay for the firearm?
Any help would be greatly appreciated, I really am only interested in a safe LEGAL transaction

Thanks,
JamMan1213

Make sure you get their phone number too to communicate. The biggest concern is them ghosting you or not showing up when scheduled and wasting your time. Theres nothing to worry about. Others have said no deposits. If you got a good deal make it ASAP before someone else outbids you.

 

[kemasa]

This assumes that nobody at the gun store swipes it in whole or in part. I would rather trust someone who could be disbarred (more skin in the game) than a far more transient LGS employee.

That is funny as I had an attorney who stole from a client, and basically stole money from me. I filed a complaint and in my case they claimed he did nothing wrong even though he violated our agreement and the original money was never accounted for. For the other case, he got to be suspended for 30 days, but his choice as to when. He had received money for a settlement and failed to give it to his client. So personally I would trust a FFL, even an employee, far more than an attorney. If they do something wrong it is far more likely that you could get the police to do something, or even perhaps the CA DOJ.

I had the CA DOJ call and basically threaten me because of a transfer in which a TX FFL gave me a fraudulent receipt and I was demanding a real receipt for sales tax purposes or I would turn the firearms over to the local police. It was really none of the CA DOJ's business as well, but the TX FFL somehow convinced them to call me. It was quite funny in the end as I explained the situation, explain sales tax evasion, explained that the stupid TX FFL included the original invoice when he purchased one of the firearms, which was higher than he was claiming that the buyers paid him. I explained that the CA retailer, in this case me, the FFL, was responsible for the proper sales tax even if the receipt was fraudulent. The attitude of the person from the CA DOJ radically changed during the conversation and I suspect a call was made to the TX FFL. It also turned out that the CA buyers had nothing to do with what the TX FFL was trying to do and provided documentation for what they paid, whereas the TX FFL never did.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

That is funny as I had an attorney who stole from a client, and basically stole money from me. I filed a complaint and in my case they claimed he did nothing wrong even though he violated our agreement and the original money was never accounted for. For the other case, he got to be suspended for 30 days, but his choice as to when. He had received money for a settlement and failed to give it to his client. So personally I would trust a FFL, even an employee, far more than an attorney. If they do something wrong it is far more likely that you could get the police to do something, or even perhaps the CA DOJ.

I had the CA DOJ call and basically threaten me because of a transfer in which a TX FFL gave me a fraudulent receipt and I was demanding a real receipt for sales tax purposes or I would turn the firearms over to the local police. It was really none of the CA DOJ's business as well, but the TX FFL somehow convinced them to call me. It was quite funny in the end as I explained the situation, explain sales tax evasion, explained that the stupid TX FFL included the original invoice when he purchased one of the firearms, which was higher than he was claiming that the buyers paid him. I explained that the CA retailer, in this case me, the FFL, was responsible for the proper sales tax even if the receipt was fraudulent. The attitude of the person from the CA DOJ radically changed during the conversation and I suspect a call was made to the TX FFL. It also turned out that the CA buyers had nothing to do with what the TX FFL was trying to do and provided documentation for what they paid, whereas the TX FFL never did.

I'm just saying that on average and with a large sample size, transient labor is going to have far less skin in the game than someone who had to take the bar exam (possibly many times) and whose entire career can be called into question.

Then again, dealing with a bad lawyer can be a nightmare and they can personally drag you through hell and financial ruin.

 

[kemasa]

I'm just saying that on average and with a large sample size, transient labor is going to have far less skin in the game than someone who had to take the bar exam (possibly many times) and whose entire career can be called into question.

Then again, dealing with a bad lawyer can be a nightmare and they can personally drag you through hell and financial ruin.

And I am saying there is far more risk for a FFL than for an attorney who basically belongs to a gang which they protect each other. It is easier to go after the business, aka the FFL, than an attorney.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

And I am saying there is far more risk for a FFL than for an attorney who basically belongs to a gang which they protect each other. It is easier to go after the business, aka the FFL, than an attorney.

I was originally talking about an individual employee, not the FFL as a whole.

As much as I trust FFL employees overall, an employee position is far more transient than your caricature of lawyers. Kinda pointless to debate it since individuals have different levels of trust based on their own peculiar experience and outlook.

 

[kemasa]

I was originally talking about an individual employee, not the FFL as a whole.

As much as I trust FFL employees overall, an employee position is far more transient than your caricature of lawyers. Kinda pointless to debate it since individuals have different levels of trust based on their own peculiar experience and outlook.

Any such agreement is going to involve either the owner or a manager, so the trust isn't going to involve a random employee.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

What I’ve noticed is folks who say they are interested in selling and when I ask questions they tend to often go silent. I’ve also had a situation where we agreed on a price for a pistol (very favorable to the seller) and then they suddenly have family problems and aren’t available for over a month or more. In two cases, I then purchased from someone else for better prices.

 

[shooterMcGavin]

I’ve done a lot of PPT’s but for the first time the other day a guy brought out one of the pens to check then bills. I thought to myself you can never be to cautious