How to ship Off-roster for Custom work out of state?

[smoothy8500]

No, do not put FFLs on any ignore list.

Ok, I will give an opportunity for Accurate to get "educated". We will see how they respond (react?) to the information presented.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Time to put "Accurate Arms" on the ignore list.....

That’s an extremely petty reason to ignore someone. They’re not being malicious, likely just missed or glossed over some details as they’re referring to sales and transfers of firearms in their responses.

It is legal for you to ship a firearm you legally own directly to an FFL for gunsmithing work and for that FFL to ship it back to you directly.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I’ve done local gun store as well as FedEx to ship. Both worked just fine. Can’t see where off roster would make a difference. Tons of off roster in CA. Roster didn’t always exist.

 

[mrbieler]

So, if the Ceracote vendor holds an FFL, all is good, yes?

Also, SMG is an approved FFL means of transfer.

It is kind of you to offer to do the work rather than have it shipped out.

If a Ceracote vendor is receiving serialized parts (most handgun frames) for work, they need a FFL01 dealer/gunsmith license.

If they have that, you have no issue.

 

[smoothy8500]

likely just missed or glossed over some details

Yes it is likely, yet when presented with their mistake the response was to double-down on their position....But, we'll see if they re-assess the AI answer they copy and pasted.

This forum we see a lot of posts where members complain or call out "Fudd answers" from gunshops. Usually it is the workers with limited understanding of the complex laws and regulations. Then again, perhaps the workers' Fudd answers came directly from the FFL/Gunshop owner?

 

[RustVendor]

Yes it is likely, yet when presented with their mistake the response was to double-down on their position....But, we'll see if they re-assess the AI answer they copy and pasted.

This forum we see a lot of posts where members complain or call out "Fudd answers" from gunshops. Usually it is the workers with limited understanding of the complex laws and regulations. Then again, perhaps the workers' Fudd answers came directly from the FFL/Gunshop owner?

They said that the DOJ told them this, the thing is they may be telling the truth and their contact at DOJ may be wrong. There also could be a misunderstanding in that the out of state gunsmith who does the work does actually need to be an FFL to receive a firearm to do work on it so maybe they were thinking if a hypothetical where that gunsmith is not an FFL, but per federal law they do need to be an FFL.

 

[jclusin]

I've sent two firearms back to the manufacturer for warranty work and they shipped them back to my house both times.

This latest go around I decided to use an FFL to send it in for repair because I can't be home on a random weekday to sign for the package

 

[Dvrjon]

I know some folks still go to Fedex, others ship from an FFL. Anyone have experience/advice in this realm?

It's important to note that the ability for the general public to ship any firearms through either FedEx or UPS was removed from company policies over a year ago. To use them now, you need an FFL (apparently and FFL-03 is sufficient) and you need to enter into a contract with them to ship.

See FedEx and UPS policies.

USPS allows the shipment of long guns, but still prohibits the mailiing of handguns. A regulatory action allowing postal shipment of handguns is still in the works.

 

[NorCALSpeed]

Update: I'm using ShipmyGun. Better safe than sorry. Thanks everyone!

 

[Dr.Dre]

You need to have a discussion with the shop doing the work for you. They will advise you on how to ship the gun. They can tell you their policy on shipping guns (hint, hint).

 

[Dvrjon]

They said that the DOJ told them this, the thing is they may be telling the truth and their contact at DOJ may be wrong.

The problem we have is we don't know what the explicit question was which was asked of the DOJ. If the phrasing was undestood to be, "Don't all handguns coming into California have to come through an FFL?", will get a far different answer than, "Do all firearms sent out of California for gunsmithing work have to be returned through a California FFL?"

Both have true answers, but they don't apply to each equally.

 

[RustVendor]

The problem we have is we don't know what the explicit question was which was asked of the DOJ. If the phrasing was undestood to be, "Don't all handguns coming into California have to come through an FFL?", will get a far different answer than, "Do all firearms sent out of California for gunsmithing work have to be returned through a California FFL?"

Both have true answers, but they don't apply to each equally.

exactly

 

[Gawernator]

Remington mailed my rifle back to me directly via UPS with signature and I know my dad got a rifle via UPS too once, so.... pretty sure it's legal to direct ship

 

[accuratearms]

I was simply trying to help as we went round and round with our DOJ auditors on this subject. They "informed us" what their interpretation of the law was.
We had other, let's say ...issues with these folks. It seemed they were young, new and trying to prove their authority. It was a long week and a half with them . . .
sorry to ruffle any feathers. It wasn't my intent.

 

[smoothy8500]

we went round and round with our DOJ auditors on this subject. They "informed us" what their interpretation of the law was. It seemed they were young, new and trying to prove their authority.

It makes sense why you gave us that instruction.

So has the issue been resolved or are DOJ still insisting it cannot go back directly to the owner?

 

[accuratearms]

It makes sense why you gave us that instruction.

So has the issue been resolved or are DOJ still insisting it cannot go back directly to the owner?

That was how it was left. We knew we weren't being heard and they weren't budging so we conceded and adjusted the way we bring in items. They were very insistent to the point of frustration on several issues. We had them call a manager for a few other things. Not on this one specifically however to be transparent.

We're hoping to have different auditors for our next go-around...

 

[john_marsten_1873]

That was how it was left. We knew we weren't being heard and they weren't budging so we conceded and adjusted the way we bring in items. They were very insistent to the point of frustration on several issues. We had them call a manager for a few other things. Not on this one specifically however to be transparent.

We're hoping to have different auditors for our next go-around...

Thanks for contributing and sharing with us! As much as I complain about how difficult it is to be a gun owner in California I can only imagine what you all have to go through and especially when your livelihoods depend on it.

At least for myself, I’m super appreciative that you stick it out and share these experiences so we can better understand that struggle.

We have to protect our FFL’s, especially in California!

 

[SJQ5248]

• Federal (18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(2)(A)): A non-licensee may ship a firearm they lawfully own to a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector (FFL). The FFL can return the same firearm (or a replacement of the same kind and type) directly to you after repair/custom work. This is not treated as a new transfer requiring a Form 4473 in the usual sense.
• California (Penal Code § 27705): Explicitly exempts delivery of a firearm to a gunsmith for service or repair, the return of that firearm to its owner, and related handoffs between licensed parties for repair from the normal transfer restrictions in § 27540 (DROS, waiting period, etc.).