Question I’m going AZ I have a AZ CCW can I buy a Glock Gen 6 there and bring it to CA?

[Skilly]

Ok. What happens if you get pulled over by CHP for driving 9mph over the speed limit. You think the officer will side with your reasoning? The answer is certainly not.

Likely nothing, but maybe go ask one? They run the serial number its registered to you; you have your second home ID; its stored correctly, and something that legally configured to be allowed in CA, what exactly is the charge? Importing?...nope, its legally registered at your second home in the other state. It can never be 'imported' by any legal means.

The AZ CCW being used will get you in trouble - with no reciprocity, if you are carrying it, that will be a charge. But storing it like you were going to the range and its legally configured, thats not illegal. With no intention of keeping it here permanently (aka importing it) and you can prove your second residency, Im not sure what the charge is going to be.

 

[ar15robert]

Likely nothing, but maybe go ask one? They run the serial number its registered to you; you have your second home ID; its stored correctly, and something that legally configured to be allowed in CA, what exactly is the charge? Importing?...nope, its legally registered at your second home in the other state. It can never be 'imported' by any legal means.

The AZ CCW being used will get you in trouble - with no reciprocity, if you are carrying it, that will be a charge. But storing it like you were going to the range and its legally configured, thats not illegal. With no intention of keeping it here permanently (aka importing it) and you can prove your second residency, Im not sure what the charge is going to be.

Ca cops like nothing more than taking a gun off the street for any reason that they can.The part here is the person is legally a ca resident and primary resident,It doesnt matter if they have anpother home out of state where they calim "dual residency"Can ony have one primary legally.

Now if that persons out of state home is their prinary residence their lic is out of state,cars registraion out of state,etc and they are visitng then they should be ok and legal.If the firearm is ca compliant

 

[Skilly]

Ca cops like nothing more than taking a gun off the street for any reason that they can.The part here is the person is legally a ca resident and primary resident,It doesnt matter if they have anpother home out of state where they calim "dual residency"Can ony have one primary legally.

Now if that persons out of state home is their prinary residence their lic is out of state,cars registraion out of state,etc and they are visitng then they should be ok and legal.If the firearm is ca compliant

OK, I see the mindset, and the scenario, and I get it, but what is legal means that they confiscate the gun(s)? Possession of your own gun, stored properly and configured to state laws isn't illegal.

Assuming that you aren't the issue (ie, being difficult or other illegal activity), I think we are vilifying LEOs in this scenario, where 99% of them would see no issue. Ill say it again though, this is all said assuming that you are not intending to keep it here permanently and break the law. It's not lost on my that for every scenario like this, there is also some dude, using the scenario for nefarious means; I get that too. A lot of this requires common sense and not being a d**k.

 

[ar15robert]

OK, I see the mindset, and the scenario, and I get it, but what is legal means that they confiscate the gun(s)? Possession of your own gun, stored properly and configured to state laws isn't illegal.

Assuming that you aren't the issue (ie, being difficult or other illegal activity), I think we are vilifying LEOs in this scenario, where 99% of them would see no issue. Ill say it again though, this is all said assuming that you are not intending to keep it here permanently and break the law. It's not lost on my that for every scenario like this, there is also some dude, using the scenario for nefarious means; I get that too. A lot of this requires common sense and not being a d**k.

You may get one cool cop out of a hundred. You willing to take that chance ?

I go to ca often for work I take my colt I don’t take my mothers because I don’t have 10 round mags and ain’t gonna try with a blocked mag.i have 3 family members with lasd. One tells me if your good and appear good he sticks to the stop. Said don’t volunteer any info. He tells me others in his dept love to go as far as they can push.

One example he gave me was during the bullet button days when they were considered locked mag. Haven’t on a back up call. Told me the deputy was boasting he’s got an illegal assault weapon that was in locked case. He had driver cuffed cousin had to break the news to other deputy how gun was legal and why. Driver admitted going to a range gave deputy pc.

Cousin told me that’s what you can deal with. And don’t give any info.

 

[ButteFlyFisher]

What are you guys doing that is putting you in the spot where LEO would run your serial number?

Don’t break the law, don’t talk beyond pleasantries, as soon as it turns into a LEO fishing trip shut it down. I haven’t been pulled over in 15+ years…

 

[NorCalBusa]

Ca cops like nothing more than taking a gun off the street for any reason that they can.The part here is the person is legally a ca resident and primary resident,It doesnt matter if they have anpother home out of state where they calim "dual residency"Can ony have one primary legally.

Now if that persons out of state home is their prinary residence their lic is out of state,cars registraion out of state,etc and they are visitng then they should be ok and legal.If the firearm is ca compliant

That statement is a bit too blanket for me. The vast majority of LEO's I know, not that they know before doing so, prefer the driver holds a CCW permit (should the topic come up). Most long term CCW holders (like me) hand over my license, reg, insurance and CCW card all in one bundle if pulled over and are armed. The popo's view is they know the holder has been through one (or 15?) background checks every other year.

LEO's in their first 1-3 years of service may still run a little "hot", my job is to cool that down. Like any traffic stop, what/how you did the act and one's attitude/demeanor will greatly influence you getting a ticket or a simple "have great day".

 

[ButteFlyFisher]

LEO's in their first 1-3 years of service may still run a little "hot", my job is to cool that down. Like any traffic stop, what/how you did the act and one's attitude/demeanor will greatly influence you getting a ticket or a simple "have great day".

It’s not my job to emotional regulate a grown ass man. Obviously don’t make the situation worse, but this is a crazy take.

 

[ar15robert]

That statement is a bit too blanket for me. The vast majority of LEO's I know, not that they know before doing so, prefer the driver holds a CCW permit (should the topic come up). Most long term CCW holders (like me) hand over my license, reg, insurance and CCW card all in one bundle if pulled over and are armed. The popo's view is they know the holder has been through one (or 15?) background checks every other year.

LEO's in their first 1-3 years of service may still run a little "hot", my job is to cool that down. Like any traffic stop, what/how you did the act and one's attitude/demeanor will greatly influence you getting a ticket or a simple "have great day".

Hear that on the ccw get it out first. Here in az if pulled over from talking to sheriff they like that you disclose you are carrying asap. They say it loosens things up and even though permitless carry is allowed they say a legal gun owner who says upfront is highly likely not going anything.

Other part of that is if they ask any firearms in the car you have to answer correctly because if you don’t and they look it becomes a felony and ours them on edge. But again legal owner has no problem saying yes there’s a gun in here.

If I lived in ca had a ccw id say upfront as well like you mention. If not and firearm in the trunk carried legallly id just stay shut to avoid the hassle there.

 

[NorCalBusa]

It’s not my job to emotional regulate a grown ass man. Obviously don’t make the situation worse, but this is a crazy take.

You do you. I've got >800,000 miles in cars, trucks and on motorcycles. For years I was the west coast sales manager for Stalker Radar- in every CHP car & bike, and county city customers as well. For sure, its just my view, but it has worked very well for me over the decades- even when I really deserved the ticket.

 

[RickD427]

This closer to what I was asking- thanks. Let me add one layer;
1. Living in NV or AZ as primary residence (Fed taxes there, spend >50% time there)
2. Also w/second home in CA (<50% time there and <50% of time overall in CA)
3. I obtain a resident CCW in NV or AZ
4. I convert my existing CA CCW to "non-resident CCW" (I then have two CCW permits)

Then;
I'm good to go for whatever guns AZ/NV allow
In CA, only good for whatever guns the IA allows on my CA Non-resident CCW permit

Pass the sniff test?

You're pretty much on the right track, but there's a couple of more points to consider:

1) You're dealing with three different sovereigns here, and they all have different laws. I don't know nothing about Arizona or Nevada law, so I can't speak to it. Both California law and federal law address residency and they do it very differently, and neither does it very specifically.

2) The federal law does not recognize "Dual Residency." There is one exception recognized by the BATF in the case a military member who is stationed in one state, and living in another state, and who commutes daily to their duty station. If you're not that guy, there's no way for you to be a "Dual Resident". OTOH, the federal law makes it very easy to change your residency, simply by travelling between two states in which you have homes (and please note that the federal regs differentiate the meaning of "Home" from "Real Property"). There is no requirement that you possess any ID in order to be a state resident under the federal law. There is no significance as to any percentage of time that you spend in any state. Please refer to 18USC921(b) and 27CFR478.11 for the details

3) California law is very non-specific as to who is a resident, and it also defines residency for firearms laws differently than it does for tax and other purposes. When you speak of "Residency" under California law, it's really important to make sure you got the right kind of "Residency." You can get into trouble if you confuse the tax meaning of residency with the firearms meaning of residency. California makes it very easy to be a "Dual Resident" with other states. California law is sensitive to the amount of time that you spend at your out-of-state residence. Please refer to Penal Section 17000(b) for the details.

4) As a very general rule, California's jurisdiction ends at its borders. But just like any general rule, there are exceptions. California prosecutors do have some limited tools to extend jurisdiction beyond its borders, but none of those are really relevant to a California dual resident who lawfully purchases a firearm in their other state and who keeps that firearm in their other state.

 

[ButteFlyFisher]

Other part of that is if they ask any firearms in the car you have to answer correctly because if you don’t and they look it becomes a felony and ours them on edge. But again legal owner has no problem saying yes there’s a gun in here.

“Officer I’m not answering any questions not related to the traffic stop” … “Am I free to leave?”

 

[RickD427]

Likely nothing, but maybe go ask one? They run the serial number its registered to you; you have your second home ID; its stored correctly, and something that legally configured to be allowed in CA, what exactly is the charge? Importing?...nope, its legally registered at your second home in the other state. It can never be 'imported' by any legal means.

The AZ CCW being used will get you in trouble - with no reciprocity, if you are carrying it, that will be a charge. But storing it like you were going to the range and its legally configured, thats not illegal. With no intention of keeping it here permanently (aka importing it) and you can prove your second residency, Im not sure what the charge is going to be.

In that case, Penal Code section 27585/27590 would be the booking charge. That charge is a felony. The presumptive bail varies by county. A quick web search shows a bail range of $10,000 to $50,000.

 

[Skilly]

In that case, Penal Code section 27590 would be the booking charge. That charge is a felony. The presumptive bail varies by county. A quick web search shows a bail range of $10,000 to $50,000.

How exactly? Lots of back and forth here, and I am not an expert by any means; genuinely seeking to understand if you are. This penal code applies to transfer, lease or sell in the state of CA. Each of those are defined as some form of transfer of ownership. That isn't what I described.

 

[ar15robert]

How exactly? Lots of back and forth here, and I am not an expert by any means; genuinely seeking to understand if you are. This penal code applies to transfer, lease or sell in the state of CA. Each of those are defined as some form of transfer of ownership. That isn't what I described.

The problem is you are still a ca resident and bringin(importing)a handgun into ca without going through ffl.

You are not moving from another state to ca instead they consider it a purchase in another state.If you purchase in other state with their ID you can do that just keep the firearm there shoot it all you want enjoy it.Now if you want to bring it to ca it now needs to go through an ffl and would have to be on roster because back to 1 you are a ca resident legally,

Rickd knows these laws well his advice is highly respected

 

[RickD427]

How exactly? Lots of back and forth here, and I am not an expert by any means; genuinely seeking to understand if you are. This penal code applies to transfer, lease or sell in the state of CA. Each of those are defined as some form of transfer of ownership. That isn't what I described.

The issue posed by the OP, and that we've discussed with various iterations here, involves the presumably lawful purchase of a handgun in Arizona by a person who resides both in Arizona and California, and who questioned the legality of subsequently bringing the weapon into California. Between posts #73 and 75 the discussion shifted to whether the act of temporarily bringing it into California was an act of importation, and Mr. "Chiroken007" posed the hypothetical - what would occur if you were stopped by a nice CHP officer (presumably with the weapon being discovered)?

My reply was the booking charge would PC 27585/27590. The reasoning runs like this:

1) The discovery of the weapon would prompt a check into its background. That would likely produce a record that it was sold to the subject in Arizona, and would also reveal the date of the transaction (either through automated AZ records if they exist (I'm not knowledgeable of Arizona's practices), or through a BATF "forward trace")

2) A records check of the subject would show him to be a California resident, and would include a source date of the record.

3) "Importation" of the weapon can be shown by its known presence in Arizona at the time of the Arizona record, and it can be shown to be in California based on the discovery by the nice CHP officer. Please note that the element of "importation" used in PC 27585 is unqualified. It's complete the moment the object crosses the state line. Many other statutes involving an importation element, use qualifying terms such as "Commercial" importation. But PC 27585 does not. It uses the unqualified term. Temporary importation is still importation. Non-Commercial importation is still importation.

4) If the date of the Arizona sales transaction came after the date of the California residency record (as it would as the OP presented his question), then the case becomes even more solid.

4) All of that establishes the violation of PC 27585 thus making the violator subject to the penalty provision of PC27590.

In that case, Penal Code section 27590 would be the booking charge. That charge is a felony. The presumptive bail varies by county. A quick web search shows a bail range of $10,000 to $50,000.

 

[Skilly]

The issue posed by the OP, and that we've discussed with various iterations here, involves the presumably lawful purchase of a handgun in Arizona by a person who resides both in Arizona and California, and who questioned the legality of subsequently bringing the weapon into California. Between posts #73 and 75 the discussion shifted to whether the act of temporarily bringing it into California was an act of importation, and Mr. "Chiroken007" posed the hypothetical - what would occur if you were stopped by a nice CHP officer (presumably with the weapon being discovered)?

My reply was the booking charge would PC 27585/27590. The reasoning runs like this:

1) The discovery of the weapon would prompt a check into its background. That would likely produce a record that it was sold the subject in Arizona, and would also reveal the date of the transaction (either through automated AZ records if they exist (I'm not knowledgeable of Arizona's practices), or through a BATF "forward trace")

2) A records check of the subject would show him to be a California resident, and would include a source date of the record.

3) "Importation" of the weapon can be shown by its known presence in Arizona at the time of the Arizona record, and it can be shown to be in California based on the discovery by the nice CHP officer. Please note that the element of "importation" used in PC 27585 is unqualified. It's complete the moment the object crosses the state line. Many other statutes involving an importation element, use qualifying terms such as "Commercial" importation. But PC 27585 does not. It uses the unqualified term. Temporary importation is still importation. Non-Commercial importation is still importation.

4) If the date of the Arizona sales transaction came after the date of the California residency record (as it would as the OP presented his question), then the case becomes even more solid.

4) All of that establishes the violation of PC 27585 thus making the violator subject to the penalty provision of PC27590.

This is helpful and makes sense! Digging into the very broad definition of importation is where simply possession inside of CA is the crime, regardless of intent.

Thanks for taking the time to explain it!

 

[Skilly]

The problem is you are still a ca resident and bringin(importing)a handgun into ca without going through ffl.

You are not moving from another state to ca instead they consider it a purchase in another state.If you purchase in other state with their ID you can do that just keep the firearm there shoot it all you want enjoy it.Now if you want to bring it to ca it now needs to go through an ffl and would have to be on roster because back to 1 you are a ca resident legally,

Rickd knows these laws well his advice is highly respected

I could tell by his answers upstream, that I was going to get to the root cause. I was not seeing the full definition of importing until he explained it. His answer was spot on...gotta love this forum and the collection of brain power!

 

[Dangerfield97]

YES! you "can".

No, you can't legally.

this is the correct answer

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

YES! you "can".

No, you can't legally.

Same goes for suppressors.

 

[ar15robert]

I could tell by his answers upstream, that I was going to get to the root cause. I was not seeing the full definition of importing until he explained it. His answer was spot on...gotta love this forum and the collection of brain power!

Yeh he knows how to word it and explain better than most.