Is the SIG P320 really that DANGEROUS? We found out!😳

[Gawernator]

AimSurplus, LLC

You just need to move out of state. Most shops have used 320's mid 300's you can get good deals from bass pro used guns also, a ton of people dumped their P320's at bass pro.

Dang they have used CZ’s for $350 too

Incomes are a lot higher here though so that’s the market

 

[WSS01]

Ok, I have over 10K rounds down 320's. I did have situation that happened once and I believe it was user error. This was in a holster too. I handed my 320 to a friend to try that was shooting his glock 17 (so you see the difference). We were running safariland holsters. We tried to fit my 320 holster to his QD, but for some reason it was not compatible, he said he would use his glock holster for the drill. It is the type with the trigger guard lock. I believe from the mismatch of fit, the lock slightly engaged the trigger, when he started to present. it discharged straight down and out the bottom of holster, fully inserted, just a firm grip and bang. But, we know for sure the gun did not fit that holster even close. To me that is user error.

 

[alex.llevine]

I have to admit I am confused why there is so much anxiety with this Sig. Don't chamber a round unless you plan to fire, and there is no possibility of accidental discharge.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

I have to admit I am confused why there is so much anxiety with this Sig. Don't chamber a round unless you plan to fire, and there is no possibility of accidental discharge.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Ok, I have over 10K rounds down 320's. I did have situation that happened once and I believe it was user error. This was in a holster too. I handed my 320 to a friend to try that was shooting his glock 17 (so you see the difference). We were running safariland holsters. We tried to fit my 320 holster to his QD, but for some reason it was not compatible, he said he would use his glock holster for the drill. It is the type with the trigger guard lock. I believe from the mismatch of fit, the lock slightly engaged the trigger, when he started to present. it discharged straight down and out the bottom of holster, fully inserted, just a firm grip and bang. But, we know for sure the gun did not fit that holster even close. To me that is user error.

At my local gun store, one of the owners gets grumbly if you mention potential concern with the P320 platform. He specially brought up holsters. Wonder if there is more going on with holsters than is being discussed. I know I’ve used my P220 holster for my P226 pistol for years.

 

[DJD100]

I waited to buy one until it was “fixed” with the redesigns and more time out in the wild.

Mine has been flawless and has the best non SA trigger in an issued weapon ever.

Only Selling because I am consolidating down to one pistol Magazine across multiple platforms, I.e. platforms that take Glock mags.

BTW, the P320 is SA as the striker is fully cocked by the slide. That's why people love it's trigger, and why it can be dangerous when the striker safety and/or sear/striker fit becomes sketchy, while noting that the manual safety when so equipped does not block the sear making it somewhat useless for UD's not involving the trigger being pulled through the break.

Some history I ran across along with one person's opinion etc...

The Sig P250 was released in 2007. The competition was first announced in 2011 without much details at first. Later after all the requirements were made public, the deadline was in the beginning of the year in 2016, but only because the deadline was pushed back multiple times. The deadline was originally supposed to be in 2013 from what I read. Sig introduced the P320 aka an altered P250 in 2014 for the sole purpose of rushing to have something to compete with.


The P320 and P250 FCU, grip modules, barrels, magazines, and slide catch are interchangeable. The FCU are almost identical with only a handful of changes to turn the P250 into a striker-fired handgun, and the same goes for the slide. The frame on the P320 even has the same cutout in the rear which was originally cut to accommodate the hammer in the P250. The P320 was a rush job. They didn't compensate for the drop safe issue because that was never an issue with the hammer fired P250. The P320 wasn't built from "the ground up" like Sig lies about again (and they do lie just like they still claim the P320 without the "Voluntary Upgrade" are fine. It's a hack job.


The only reason the P320 become popular and what's ultimate put under a microscope was because they won the military trials and and soon after law enforcement followed suit. The P320 wasn't all that popular beforehand. Though they won't admit it, people in the firearm community are mostly followers and puppets. They rested on Sig Germany's and Switzerland's laurels and the fact that U.S. military and L.E. started issuing it. It's NOT that great of a platform, it doesn't have a good reputation or track record, it wasn't designed from the bottom up for it's intended use, and there are a plethora of arguably better options in the endless sea of plastic fantastic striker fired pistols. Regardless of whether there's any merit to all the negative press and allocations, I don't understand why anyone would take the risk when there are so many other options available.

 

[Gawernator]

Ok, I have over 10K rounds down 320's. I did have situation that happened once and I believe it was user error. This was in a holster too. I handed my 320 to a friend to try that was shooting his glock 17 (so you see the difference). We were running safariland holsters. We tried to fit my 320 holster to his QD, but for some reason it was not compatible, he said he would use his glock holster for the drill. It is the type with the trigger guard lock. I believe from the mismatch of fit, the lock slightly engaged the trigger, when he started to present. it discharged straight down and out the bottom of holster, fully inserted, just a firm grip and bang. But, we know for sure the gun did not fit that holster even close. To me that is user error.

That scenario explains the majority of the "ND"'s that have been reported, along with people straight up pulling the trigger on accident

 

[Gawernator]

BTW, the P320 is SA as the striker is fully cocked by the slide. That's why people love it's trigger, and why it can be dangerous when the striker safety and/or sear/striker fit becomes sketchy, while noting that the manual safety when so equipped does not block the sear making it somewhat useless for UD's not involving the trigger being pulled through the break.

Some history I ran across along with one person's opinion etc...

Whoever wrote that is just salty, jealous and big mad because Sig steamrolled whatever brand they're a fanboy of. Everything they said is their opinion, not a fact. Even the M9 had to be updated because of issues when the Army first got it. Whoever wrote that seriously is not intelligent, sorry. The gun has a fine service record, for over a decade now. It has even defeated the beloved M9 in reliability tests recently, surpassing mean rounds before stoppage.

 

[Gawernator]

AimSurplus, LLC

You just need to move out of state. Most shops have used 320's mid 300's you can get good deals from bass pro used guns also, a ton of people dumped their P320's at bass pro.

I just noticed one mag only too. So after you buy 2 more mags to get to the standard 3 the gun comes with, that's another $120 LOL

 

[WSS01]

At my local gun store, one of the owners gets grumbly if you mention potential concern with the P320 platform. He specially brought up holsters. Wonder if there is more going on with holsters than is being discussed. I know I’ve used my P220 holster for my P226 pistol for years.

My 220 and 226 interchange nicely too!

 

[DJD100]

Whoever wrote that is just salty, jealous and big mad because Sig steamrolled whatever brand they're a fanboy of. Everything they said is their opinion, not a fact. Even the M9 had to be updated because of issues when the Army first got it. Whoever wrote that seriously is not intelligent, sorry. The gun has a fine service record, for over a decade now. It has even defeated the beloved M9 in reliability tests recently, surpassing mean rounds before stoppage.

The P320 is a modified P250, noting that the P320/M18/M17 was created to be the lowest bid for the military contract competition. These are facts, not opinions.

Note that I'm not a Sig hater seeing I love my P365 Spectre Comp, which is a fantastic pistol with proper safety features, and only 1 reported alleged UD incident.

P320 (a SA pistol with a unique striker safety design featuring a partially captured torsion spring, plus when equipped a manual safety that only works on the trigger bar, not the sear);

100+ allegedly un-commanded discharges.
100+ active law suits.
FBI test: 9/50 attempts resulted in un-commanded discharges in holster.

More than 2.5 million SIG Sauer P320 pistols have been shipped and sold globally since its initial commercial release in 2014.

***************************************************

P365 (also a SA striker fired pistol, though with a traditional fully captured coil spring and plunger striker safety, plus when equipped a manual safety that works directly on the sear);

1 allegedly un-commanded discharge in holster.
1 active law suit.
FBI test: N/A.

Industry analysts and data from distribution networks indicate that SIG Sauer has shipped well over 2 million to 3 million total units across the entire SIG Sauer P365 family (including the original, XL, SAS, XMacro, and Fuse variants).


Hint, whether you agree with that guy or not does not make him intelligent or not, seeing your opinion is in no way is more valid than his. That said, of course there are lots of properly functioning P320's out there, or at least they are until they aren't, so Ya'll carrying them in C0 or C1 be extra careful, especially you appendix carriers!

Question: The guy says why risk it as there are so many other plastic fantastics to choose from, so what exactly is "not intelligent" about that?

 

[mossy]

Dang they have used CZ’s for $350 too

Incomes are a lot higher here though so that’s the market

No. In free states there is no handgun roster and group of exempted people driving up the prices of pistols. Outside of California its 100% a buyers market right now and if a store wants to sell they have to price accordingly.

 

[bazooka]

FBI test: 9/50 attempts resulted in un-commanded discharges in holster.

I am currently of the opinion that my m18 is perfectly safe. I am also of the opinion that the issues with non-safety P320's were user error on a gun whose trigger is very easy to pull. However, there is something in the FBI report "Michigan State Police Sig Sauer M18 Evaluation" that does deserve a careful look.

Most of the report is speculation about what might have caused the UD. The seating of the striker spring is discussed. But, when the striker is inserted into the slide, the spring is fully captured. It's only not fully captured when the striker is removed from the slide. So, that seems to be just a theoretical concern. However, there is some real concern about the striker safety, nonetheless and that's what the 9/50 UD's are about.

The 9/50 UD's should be better explained. The description of that portion of the test is on page 29 of the 32 page report, and it's the the only troubling section of the entire report.

Because of the inherent movement between the slide and frame, a third test of the striker safety lock was conducted. Approximately 50 attempts were made to determine if the striker would impact the primed case after manipulating the weapon while holstered. The weapon was pressed together and pulled apart (at the slide and frame). Thereafter, pressure was applied to the frame and the sear manually released from the primary notch. The intent of the manipulation and pressure was to mimic what might occur to a holstered weapon during an officer’s duties, such as running, jumping, climbing, fighting, pressing a weapon against a wall or vehicle, or obtaining a master grip on the pistol prior to drawing, etc.

BRF staff observed the primed case fired on nine attempts with the primer indent measuring between 0.019”-0.026” with an average of 0.023”. While staging one attempt to allow another BRF staff member to observe the striker safety lock function as designed, the weapon was prepared and placed into the holster with no manipulation. A second staff member released the primary sear notch from the striker and the primed case fired indicating failure of the striker safety lock. The primer indention measured 0.018”.

So, they manipulated the slide, manually released the sear, and notice the striker safety sometimes failed. To manually release the sear, they trimmed the rear slide cap and used a punch. The suggestion is that something about manipulating the slide left the striker somewhat ineffective. They then tried the same test on a brand new M18 pistol:

A brand-new unfired Sig Sauer M18 pistol33 was obtained from MSP to determine if the test could be repeated on another weapon. On the first attempt, the striker safety lock successfully prevented the striker from impacting the primed case. However, on the second attempt the primed case fired, indicating the striker safety lock failed to stop the striker’s forward movement. The primer indent measured 0.023”.

But, at no point were they able to get the sear to malfunction. So, the striker safety issue, by itself, would not have resulted in the uncommanded discharge. Also, the M18 in question had no manual safety. Finally, the trigger guard had a scratch that is consistent with the officer's keys getting into the holster. He was holding keys at the time of the discharge and had just finished practicing drawing his pistol.

I really wish this particular safety failure was investigated more thoroughly. The problem with the FBI report is that the guns in question were shipped with faulty triggers and were not standard M18's (with the manual safety). The gun which had the UD had a defective X Flat Blade trigger that was worked on (ground down) and installed by a Michigan State Police armorer. These non-stock guns are not close enough to my gun to draw any conclusion with regard to issues I might have. I would love to see the striker safety issue replicated on a stock M18 like I have.

 

[Gawernator]

No. In free states there is no handgun roster and group of exempted people driving up the prices of pistols. Outside of California its 100% a buyers market right now and if a store wants to sell they have to price accordingly.

Yes. Both are true at the same time. P320 and M18 are both on roster so that isn't the reason why here.

 

[RustyIron]

I sped through the video a couple times because I'm too impatient to watch slowly. Did they actually have a full magazine with a live round in the chamber?

 

[Gawernator]

I sped through the video a couple times because I'm too impatient to watch slowly. Did they actually have a full magazine with a live round in the chamber?

Live round yes.

 

[RustyIron]

Live round yes.

That's good. A legitimate test would require a live round. But to conduct it in the manner shown in the video seems irresponsible. Catching a thrown gun could easily end up with a finger through the trigger guard. This sort of tomfoolery just ain't my jam. A much wiser and equally legitimate test would involve a primed casing with no powder or projectile. But whatever. They weren't doing it here.

 

[Gawernator]

That's good. A legitimate test would require a live round. But to conduct it in the manner shown in the video seems irresponsible. Catching a thrown gun could easily end up with a finger through the trigger guard. This sort of tomfoolery just ain't my jam. A much wiser and equally legitimate test would involve a primed casing with no powder or projectile. But whatever. They weren't doing it here.

They loaded a primer only, sorry

 

[bazooka]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know of a website or link where someone has documented all of the discharges and the results of investigations? The one discharge that caught my eye was a police officer arresting someone at the station with the pistol in the holster and it went off. Not sure if there was something also in the holster or if it was an incorrect holster. Also, does anyone know if these discharges have also occured with the versions that have a manual safety? I haven’t dug into this issue. I am a huge Sig fan and got really excited when the P320 came out. A friend of mine was at Shot Show the year it came out and got to shoot it and said it shot nice. Really wanted one ever since but the discharges have caused me to pause.

I really can't answer your question whether there are been uncommanded discharges involving a P320 with the manual safety. But a related question is whether there were any lawsuits involving a P320 with a safety. I asked Claude AI that and got the answer "no". In fact, Claude said that the existence of the P320 with a safety has been used as evidence against Sig, suggesting that Sig knew the non-safety versions were not safe enough.

If there is ever a case of an uncommanded discharge of a P320 with the safety engaged, that would be very big news. Some people suggest the safety is inadequate since it doesn't block sear movement. So far, I've not seen any evidence of that being true.

 

[RustyIron]

They loaded a primer only, sorry

Those boys are actually smarter than they look! Good for them!