Long range shooters - got a .375 ENABELR question

[seanjq]

single stage press is like 200, wet tumbler probably 100, case trimmer which you probably don't actually need until you have fired a case 3-4 times would be 50 for a manual up to 150 for a case prep station with an electric motor. Then some kind of scale, some people get really anal with scales and will buy like a lab analytical, I use the Hornady auto charge pro because I found it for 150 bucks, but it's been accurate when I check it against my balance to the .1 grains which I think is perfectly fine. A lot of what people do for reloading is voodoo and not necessary, even if you just do the minimum you will still be better than factory ammo. Like annealing is good to do but say you have 300 pieces of brass, you can get 7-8 firings easy without annealing and that's a whole barrel so annealing is just a bonus not something you need to do.

Appreciate the info.

 

[Indian valley headhunter]

Your take that the way a bullet moves through the air with regards to drag and other factors ‘is irrelevant’ is an interesting one.
This round drops approx. 54 more meters at 2 miles than the one I use.
Maybe you think that’s insignificant?
PS: I use factory ammo at that range regularly.
Seems to work for me.

That's not at all what I said. What I said was you plug the bc into your solver and the fact that it start with a 3, 4 or 5s irrelevant. You lase, solve, dial the optic, hold the wind and send it. Who cares how many clicks... Your aren't running out of travel at 1500.

You asked why the number was so "low"... Since you don't reload apparently - which I cannot fathom as an elr shooter - you are stuck using whatever they load as factory rounds. So like I said... Dope the gun and send it...

Or buy a caliber that flings a more Efficient pill. There are more economical and equally ballistic ally efficient ways to fling lead/copper than a the 338 on the same Case, the 33xc.... do you actually need that much hate on target? Unless the goal is shooting exclusively >2k, that's a lot of powder noise and recoil for no good reason. Sure it sounds better on steel, but if you aren't using it for terminal ballistics, the hole you punch doesn't matter much.

I've got a safe full of heavy stuff I barely shoot anymore. The more I learn the less stuff I buy and the more stuff gathers dust.

 

[Indian valley headhunter]

Mostly between 900-1500 meters. Occasionally up to 3200 meters, but to do that I have to travel out of state (Texas or New Mexico).

Inside 1500 you'd be better off with a 7mm of some flavor and you'd be hard pressed to spend $4/rd

 

[southcoast_longgunner]

Well yes... you got a point there.

My real point is that calibers like these are usually severely underutilized due to range limitations, and such a financial and logistical burden that they really only make sense for the small percentage of shooters with the base skillset, time, access to land, and cash to fully utilize them. For everyone else, they're kind of the equivalent to buying a top fuel drag car, having only enough of the backend support to make a couple half-ass runs down the strip a year, and it ends up being more of a vanity project than a serious undertaking because the nature of itself also works against itself. The Nightforce ELR match has been dominated by 6.5mm, 7mm, and .30cal cartridges lately, in rifles that are far more regularly useable, at far less cost and struggle to the shooter.

NF ELR Calibers & Cartridges – What The Pros Use

Over the past few weeks, I surveyed over 100 shooters who competed in this year’s Nightforce Extend...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[RustVendor]

That's not at all what I said. What I said was you plug the number into your solver and the fact that it start with a 3 or a 4 is irrelevant. You dial the optic, hold the wind and send it. Who cares?

You asked why the number was so "low"... Since you don't reload apparently - which I cannot fathom as an elr shooter - you are stuck using whatever they load as factory rounds. So like I said... Dope the gun and send it...

Or buy a caliber that flings a more Efficient pill. There are more economical and equally ballistic ally efficient ways to fling lead/copper than a the 338 on the same Case, the 33xc.... do you actually need that much hate on target? Unless the goal is shooting exclusively >2k, that's a lot of powder noise and recoil for no good reason.

it does matter though to a certain point, the more you dial the more error there is so less drag means more mechanical accuracy because the cone of dispersion is inherently smaller on a bullet that moves less before it hits the target. Under 1000 you are fine using a 105 berger vs a 109 berger but the longer you go the more it matters.

 

[Indian valley headhunter]

My real point is that calibers like these are usually severely underutilized due to range limitations, and such a financial and logistical burden that they really only make sense for the small percentage of shooters with the base skillset, time, access to land, and cash to fully utilize them. For everyone else, they're kind of the equivalent to buying a top fuel drag car, having only enough of the backend support to make a couple half-ass runs down the strip a year, and it ends up being more of a vanity project than a serious undertaking because the nature of itself also works against itself. The Nightforce ELR match has been dominated by 6.5mm, 7mm, and .30cal cartridges lately, in rifles that are far more regularly useable, at far less cost and struggle to the shooter.

NF ELR Calibers & Cartridges – What The Pros Use

Over the past few weeks, I surveyed over 100 shooters who competed in this year’s Nightforce Extend...

precisionrifleblog.com

This 100% this

 

[Indian valley headhunter]

it does matter though to a certain point, the more you dial the more error there is so less drag means more mechanical accuracy because the cone of dispersion is inherently smaller on a bullet that moves less before it hits the target. Under 1000 you are fine using a 105 berger vs a 109 berger but the longer you go the more it matters.

This is another theoretical argument. Not 1% of shooters missing at distance can shoot inside the mechanical error of a quality optic. I'll stick with what I already said... At 1.5k, 375 is a waste of time money, recoil, overpressure headaches and barrels. Unless all my shooting was 2k plus I'd never bother with one... And this is my backyard... I have the space. 95% of my shooting is 7prc, 284, or smaller. For the $3 you could get a Killer reloading set up, a fresh barrel and a lot of quality instruction. For my buck, money better spent.

 

[southcoast_longgunner]

This is another theoretical argument. Not 1% of shooters missing at distance can shoot inside the mechanical error of a quality optic. I'll stick with what I already said... At 1.5k, 375 is a waste of time money, recoil, overpressure headaches and barrels. Unless all my shooting was 2k plus I'd never bother with one... And this is my backyard... I have the space. 95% of my shooting is 7prc, 284, or smaller. For the $3 you could get a Killer reloading set up, a fresh barrel and a lot of quality instruction. For my buck, money better spent.

Woah man, I'm not looking for your address or anything but where is this?

 

[Indian valley headhunter]

Woah man, I'm not looking for your address or anything but where is this?

Hey man... You know me from the hide. I'm bolens buddy up near Paso. That's our range over on the coalinga side.

 

[southcoast_longgunner]

Hey man... You know me from the hide. I'm bolens buddy up near Paso. That's our range over on the coalinga side.

Oh man, if you're interested in having a conversation, I'd love to pitch a couple things to you

 

[RustVendor]

This is another theoretical argument. Not 1% of shooters missing at distance can shoot inside the mechanical error of a quality optic. I'll stick with what I already said... At 1.5k, 375 is a waste of time money, recoil, overpressure headaches and barrels. Unless all my shooting was 2k plus I'd never bother with one... And this is my backyard... I have the space. 95% of my shooting is 7prc, 284, or smaller. For the $3 you could get a Killer reloading set up, a fresh barrel and a lot of quality instruction. For my buck, money better spent.

agreed, I definitely tend for underbore vs overbore even for hunting. Im a 6mm motherless . My first rifle ever 20 years ago was a 6.5 lb 30-06 and I hated shooting it. Just being pedantic about BC, it does matter. Does it matter here? probably not

 

[seanjq]

That's not at all what I said. What I said was you plug the bc into your solver and the fact that it start with a 3, 4 or 5s irrelevant. You lase, solve, dial the optic, hold the wind and send it. Who cares how many clicks... Your aren't running out of travel at 1500.

You asked why the number was so "low"... Since you don't reload apparently - which I cannot fathom as an elr shooter - you are stuck using whatever they load as factory rounds. So like I said... Dope the gun and send it...

Or buy a caliber that flings a more Efficient pill. There are more economical and equally ballistic ally efficient ways to fling lead/copper than a the 338 on the same Case, the 33xc.... do you actually need that much hate on target? Unless the goal is shooting exclusively >2k, that's a lot of powder noise and recoil for no good reason. Sure it sounds better on steel, but if you aren't using it for terminal ballistics, the hole you punch doesn't matter much.

I've got a safe full of heavy stuff I barely shoot anymore. The more I learn the less stuff I buy and the more stuff gathers dust.

The 'factory' loads I'm 'stuck with' ranks in the top 3 best ELR bullets you can get, so I'm happily stuck.
As for reloading, a $2000 investment in equipment to save $5 per round and creates a lot more work is meh, but I might do it anyway.
As for the money... people spend it on useless all the time - me, I think $15 to get the enjoyment and satisfaction of that metallic ping coming back at me is money well spent.
And the goal is always 2 miles and beyond.

 

[seanjq]

it does matter though to a certain point, the more you dial the more error there is so less drag means more mechanical accuracy because the cone of dispersion is inherently smaller on a bullet that moves less before it hits the target. Under 1000 you are fine using a 105 berger vs a 109 berger but the longer you go the more it matters.

Precisely.

 

[southcoast_longgunner]

The 'factory' loads I'm 'stuck with' ranks in the top 3 best ELR bullets you can get, so I'm happily stuck.
As for reloading, a $2000 investment in equipment to save $5 per round and creates a lot more work is meh, but I might do it anyway.
As for the money... people spend it on useless all the time - me, I think $15 to get the enjoyment and satisfaction of that metallic ping coming back at me is money well spent.
And the goal is always 2 miles and beyond.

So imagine you still spend $15, but get to pull the trigger 3x instead of once, and at the end of the day you experience that metallic ping coming back at you minimum of 2x more. The whole "2 miles and beyond" thing, that's a different conversation that to be totally honest isn't nearly as relevant as you think it is because the opportunity to do that is pretty minimal. You're MUCH better off shooting more, for less money, at more easily attainable ranges/distances and learning the ins/outs of long range shooting to the point that an internet forum for California gun owners isn't where you go to ask questions, and then potentially attack the 2 mile thing occasionally.

 

[seanjq]

So imagine you still spend $15, but get to pull the trigger 3x instead of once, and at the end of the day you experience that metallic ping coming back at you minimum of 2x more. The whole "2 miles and beyond" thing, that's a different conversation that to be totally honest isn't nearly as relevant as you think it is because the opportunity to do that is pretty minimal. You're MUCH better off shooting more, for less money, at more easily attainable ranges/distances and learning the ins/outs of long range shooting to the point that an internet forum for California gun owners isn't where you go to ask questions, and then potentially attack the 2 mile thing occasionally.

My apologies for going on an internet gun forum and asking questions from like-minded people, many of whom are extremely knowledgeable.
And how would you know how much opportunity I have to shoot 2 miles I wonder?
It’s also possible I’m very experienced at long range shooting with years of specialized military training, and now has decided that pushing to extreme ranges is more rewarding since everything below 1000 meters has pretty much been done.
Or maybe I’m just a bored trust fund kid with nothing better to do.
You just never know.

 

[seanjq]

So imagine you still spend $15, but get to pull the trigger 3x instead of once, and at the end of the day you experience that metallic ping coming back at you minimum of 2x more. The whole "2 miles and beyond" thing, that's a different conversation that to be totally honest isn't nearly as relevant as you think it is because the opportunity to do that is pretty minimal. You're MUCH better off shooting more, for less money, at more easily attainable ranges/distances and learning the ins/outs of long range shooting to the point that an internet forum for California gun owners isn't where you go to ask questions, and then potentially attack the 2 mile thing occasionally.

Furthermore, I never asked for advice on what distance to shoot, what to shoot with, what bullets to use or how to get more enjoyment out of my shooting.

I simply asked why Desert Tech is making Enabelr rounds with a ty bullet with a low BC when there are much better options.

Why don’t you just do you and I’ll carry on as I have on my end?
Fair?

 

[Indian valley headhunter]

My apologies for going on an internet gun forum and asking questions from like-minded people, many of whom are extremely knowledgeable.
And how would you know how much opportunity I have to shoot 2 miles I wonder?
It’s also possible I’m very experienced at long range shooting with years of specialized military training, and now has decided that pushing to extreme ranges is more rewarding since everything below 1000 meters has pretty much been done.
Or maybe I’m just a bored trust fund kid with nothing better to do.
You just never know.

Because if you were you wouldn't have asked the question you asked.

 

[seanjq]

Because if you were you wouldn't have asked the question you asked.

So insightful. I just got chills.

 

[Indian valley headhunter]

Furthermore, I never asked for advice on what distance to shoot, what to shoot with, what bullets to use or how to get more enjoyment out of my shooting.

I simply asked why Desert Tech is making Enabelr rounds with a ty bullet with a low BC when there are much better options.

Why don’t you just do you and I’ll carry on as I have on my end?
Fair?

Is it a ty bullet or a top 3 bullet?

People are running the train because your question was clickbaity.

If you approach the content with humility there are some solid nuggets in the thread.... actually got some solid advice from some dudes who bang steel and meat....reaaaaallly far away.

The real answer is probably that desert tech makes stuff that they know their fanbase will buy. They understand that the market is tiny as serious elr shooters are going to make their own stuff anyway and they don't bother with options that will sit on their balance sheet as aging inventory.

 

[seanjq]

Is it a ty bullet or a top 3 bullet?

People are running the train because your question was clickbaity.

If you approach the content with humility there are some solid nuggets in the thread.... actually got some solid advice from some dudes who bang steel and meat....reaaaaallly far away.

The real answer is probably that desert tech makes stuff that they know their fanbase will buy. They understand that the market is tiny as serious elr shooters are going to make their own stuff anyway and they don't bother with options that will sit on their balance sheet as aging inventory.

This is all you needed to say. "The real answer is probably that desert tech makes stuff that they know their fanbase will buy. They understand that the market is tiny as serious elr shooters are going to make their own stuff anyway and they don't bother with options that will sit on their balance sheet as aging inventory."
None of your other unsolicited advice was necessary or asked for.