Mag Disconnect - do you just accept it?

[Darqhelmet]

I don’t like MDs either but I think this overstates the point. The French Army included a MD in its Grande Puissance requirements that yielded the Browning Hi Power. I assume the French Army ordinance officers who wanted a MD were people who shot, understood firearms, and had a use case in mind. Exactly what that use case was, I don’t know.

lol no, look at the Sig m7. Shooters do not decide what firearms they carry in the military. See also drum mags.

 

[Darqhelmet]

I just can’t accept it. If I can remove it, I do. If it can’t be feasibly and easily removed, like on CA-compliant H&Ks and Walthers, then I simply don’t appreciate the gun enough to buy it.

Yup, after I saw the CA VP9’s I am even more happy that mine are all free state models.

 

[rodralig]

Yup, after I saw the CA VP9’s I am even more happy that mine are all free state models.

Like I was joking with another CAGuns member, apparently H&K and Walther looked at California compliance and said, “How can we make this as annoying as humanly possible?” Mission accomplished.
F!?! H&K and Walther!?!


I appreciate how Smith & Wesson handled the M&P and how Springfield approached the Echelon. I guess that’s one advantage of being “Born in America” versus dealing with some of the European counterparts.

 

[dvoncock]

lol no, look at the Sig m7. Shooters do not decide what firearms they carry in the military. See also drum mags.

Soldiers being issued and not choosing their sidearm a non sequitur. Someone posited MDs are imposed by people who don’t shoot or understand firearms, which is a demonstrably false straw man argument. The militaries that adopted the Hi Power—i.e., every Free World military except the U.S.—liked the MD because experience taught them that their soldier couldn’t be trusted to check chambers. In others words, California wants MDs because they think you and I are idiots who also cannot be trusted to check chambers.

 

[homuman]

Lucky enough for all my guns to come without the disconnect.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Soldiers being issued and not choosing their sidearm a non sequitur. Someone posited MDs are imposed by people who don’t shoot or understand firearms, which is a demonstrably false straw man argument. The militaries that adopted the Hi Power—i.e., every Free World military except the U.S.—liked the MD because experience taught them that their soldier couldn’t be trusted to check chambers. In others words, California wants MDs because they think you and I are idiots who also cannot be trusted to check chambers.

We can argue all you want about who picks the guns, shooters, pencil pushers, which ever general gets the best bribe. Why the French picked a md as a req is unknown. Seeing that if officers are actually shooting s gotten real bad most of them are not “shooters” hell the vast majority of the military are not “shooters”. Did ND’s happen while I was in, yup, did we run out and add MD’s to our M9’s and A4’s. Nope. Are the French conscripts, at the time, yes. so maybe they are stupid and needed that extra layer. Still a stupid idea, that adds another failure point and EXTRA training compared to not having one in the first place.

 

[Gawernator]

Soldiers being issued and not choosing their sidearm a non sequitur. Someone posited MDs are imposed by people who don’t shoot or understand firearms, which is a demonstrably false straw man argument. The militaries that adopted the Hi Power—i.e., every Free World military except the U.S.—liked the MD because experience taught them that their soldier couldn’t be trusted to check chambers. In others words, California wants MDs because they think you and I are idiots who also cannot be trusted to check chambers.

The lowest common denominator is brutal. Pvt Pyles and Forrest Gump types are real LOL. Ironically he was really good with firearms

 

[Diabolus]

Soldiers being issued and not choosing their sidearm a non sequitur. Someone posited MDs are imposed by people who don’t shoot or understand firearms, which is a demonstrably false straw man argument. The militaries that adopted the Hi Power—i.e., every Free World military except the U.S.—liked the MD because experience taught them that their soldier couldn’t be trusted to check chambers. In others words, California wants MDs because they think you and I are idiots who also cannot be trusted to check chambers.

You’re calling my comment a straw man. That isn’t what that word means. A straw man is when you rewrite the other guy’s argument into something he didn’t say, then attack that. I said mag disconnects were enacted by people who don’t shoot, don’t understand how guns operate, and run on the premise that adding more “safety” features is better. That’s SB 489 and the Unsafe Handgun Act. I did not say no army, and no one who shoots, has ever put an MD on a spec sheet. You answered that broader claim by pointing at the 1921 French Grande Puissance list. That’s a straw man.

An issued service pistol doesn’t refute what I said. An army writing a spec for a gun they hand to thousands of guys is doing risk management for the institution. California telling dealers they can’t sell a new pistol unless it has an MD is a different thing. Different people making the rule, different people using the gun, different ways it can go wrong.

California didn’t even have numbers. The Senate writeup on SB 489 said there was no statistical data on how many deaths this would stop. They cited a survey about what untrained adults think a gun does with the mag out, then required it on new roster guns anyway.