Many CZs may fall off DOJ Roster

[BasedMerchant]

So glad I just got my P-01. Debating on grabbing an SP-01 as well - but I didn't like the grips on the SP-01 and it shoots about the same.

 

[foothillman]

Yup

Think that could be a grey area since it did not expire at the first of the year.
It did not fail a retest as noted in #32020
Was removed since parts or manufacturing have changed from original pistols tested.

Codes Display Text

"32015
(3) If a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster of not unsafe handguns because of failure to pay the fee required to keep that handgun listed on the roster, the handgun shall be deliverable to the purchaser if the purchaser is not otherwise prohibited from purchasing or possessing the handgun. However, if a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 32020, the handgun shall not be deliverable to the purchaser.
(Amended by Stats. 2013, Ch. 758, Sec. 4. (SB 363) Effective January 1, 2014.)"

Cal. Code Regs. Tit. 11, § 4070 - Roster of Certified Handguns​

"(c) A handgun model may be removed from the Roster for any of the following reasons:
(1) If the annual maintenance fee is not paid as set forth in Penal Code section 32015, subdivision (b).
(2) If it is determined that the handgun models submitted for testing were modified in any way from those that were sold after certification was granted.
(3) If it is determined that the handgun is in fact unsafe based upon further testing."

 

[The Gleam]

I think pricing won't get too crazy. At the end of the day, it is an old platform that CZ was probably only still manufacturing for California at this point. We are still getting some new editions from CZ onto the roster next year as well, including the Shadow 2. I won't be surprised if this spurs them to add some more newer CZs tot eh roster honestly.

Of course they will. One only need look at when CZ discontinued the venerable and much loved Tactical Sport, and prices skyrocketed almost immediately even with plenty of inventory in CA stores. The P01, SP01, and PCR are just as revered.

So unfortunate. Vote wisely.

---

 

[OpusX]

I just DROS'd every single CZ we have in the shops to myself as a precaution. I am still sitting on unsellable USPs

As far as I understand, if your CZ stock is older than 2+ months then it's still the CA approved models and safe to sell. Part of the problem with HK losing USPs was that they didn't notify the DOJ of the manufacturing changes and let the DOJ find out for themselves when one of their guys was in someone's shop, got their grimy hands on one and tore it apart, so that didn't go well to say the least. At least CZ is being forthcoming so maybe the DOJ will work with them? Maybe that's just wishful thinking too...

 

[westsidearms]

Think that could be a grey area since it did not expire at the first of the year.
It did not fail a retest as noted in #32020
Was removed since parts or manufacturing have changed from original pistols tested.

Codes Display Text

"32015
(3) If a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster of not unsafe handguns because of failure to pay the fee required to keep that handgun listed on the roster, the handgun shall be deliverable to the purchaser if the purchaser is not otherwise prohibited from purchasing or possessing the handgun. However, if a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 32020, the handgun shall not be deliverable to the purchaser.
(Amended by Stats. 2013, Ch. 758, Sec. 4. (SB 363) Effective January 1, 2014.)"

Cal. Code Regs. Tit. 11, § 4070 - Roster of Certified Handguns​

"(c) A handgun model may be removed from the Roster for any of the following reasons:
(1) If the annual maintenance fee is not paid as set forth in Penal Code section 32015, subdivision (b).
(2) If it is determined that the handgun models submitted for testing were modified in any way from those that were sold after certification was granted.
(3) If it is determined that the handgun is in fact unsafe based upon further testing."

I would think we would get a bulletin on this otherwise how would we know? I do not have an CZs so I am good.

 

[Joker67]

So glad I just got my P-01. Debating on grabbing an SP-01 as well - but I didn't like the grips on the SP-01 and it shoots about the same.

No one keeps the grips it comes with. There is a huge aftermarket for grips. LOK has multiple thicknesses and textures . They sell singles and multiple colors. I have a heavily textured palm swell G-10 grip on the left and a thin moderately textured G-10 grip on the right for CCW, I use the same combo but with Heavy texture on both sides for competition . You can mix and match textures and sizes to get the ideal grip for your hand.

 

[foothillman]

Currently still on Roster.
Do not think CADOJ have made a decision to remove or add.
Some changes are allowed that will not cause removal.
The manufacturer is required to submit the "new model version" for approval.
This is most likely why CZ sent that letter out since they made changes and need to get a add or remove.
The problem is CZ changed the manufacturing and no longer make the original.
Keeping the same model # after changes can cause all before/after changes to become "unsafe handgun"
M2C


"32030.
(a) A firearm shall be deemed to satisfy the requirements of subdivision (a) of Section 32015 if another firearm made by the same manufacturer is already listed and the unlisted firearm differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the following features:

(1) Finish, including, but not limited to, bluing, chrome-plating, oiling, or engraving.
(2) The material from which the grips are made.
(3) The shape or texture of the grips, so long as the difference in grip shape or texture does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
(4) Any other purely cosmetic feature that does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.

(b) Any manufacturer seeking to have a firearm listed under this section shall provide to the Department of Justice all of the following:
(1) The model designation of the listed firearm.
(2) The model designation of each firearm that the manufacturer seeks to have listed under this section.
(3) A statement, under oath, that each unlisted firearm for which listing is sought differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the ways identified in subdivision (a) and is in all other respects identical to the listed firearm.
(c) The department may, in its discretion and at any time, require a manufacturer to provide to the department any model for which listing is sought under this section, to determine whether the model complies with the requirements of this section.

(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. (SB 1080) Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)"

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

I just DROS'd every single CZ we have in the shops to myself as a precaution. I am still sitting on unsellable USPs

This is what we did too.

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

I have a CZ75 BD in jail rn. Am I gonna be ok?

Assuming it doesn't fall off roster before pick up yes.

There is a provision in the penal code that if the gun falls off roster due to manufacturing changes, then the dealer is required to cancel the DROS and cannot release the gun. There are plenty of FFL's unaware of the law/willing to risk their license however, so it will depend on the dealer if they will still release after it fall's off roster. CA Penal Code 32015 (a)(3) states:

"If a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster of not unsafe handguns because of failure to pay the fee required to keep that handgun listed on the roster, the handgun shall be deliverable to the purchaser if the purchaser is not otherwise prohibited from purchasing or possessing the handgun. However, if a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 32020, the handgun shall not be deliverable to the purchaser."

 

[ugimports]

Assuming it doesn't fall off roster before pick up yes.

There is a provision in the penal code that if the gun falls off roster due to manufacturing changes, then the dealer is required to cancel the DROS and cannot release the gun. There are plenty of FFL's unaware of the law/willing to risk their license however, so it will depend on the dealer if they will still release after it fall's off roster. CA Penal Code 32015 (a)(3) states:

"If a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster of not unsafe handguns because of failure to pay the fee required to keep that handgun listed on the roster, the handgun shall be deliverable to the purchaser if the purchaser is not otherwise prohibited from purchasing or possessing the handgun. However, if a purchaser has initiated a transfer of a handgun that is listed on the roster as not unsafe, and prior to the completion of the transfer, the handgun is removed from the roster pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 32020, the handgun shall not be deliverable to the purchaser."

If CA DOJ thinks this should happen why don't they just reject them? I think them asking dealers to cancel has some legal piece to it where they possibly know that after DROS has started they can't reject them all because they can't prove the pistol in question is the one with mfg issue or not.... as with my example with selling old stock...

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

If CA DOJ thinks this should happen why don't they just reject them? I think them asking dealers to cancel has some legal piece to it where they possibly know that after DROS has started they can't reject them all because they can't prove the pistol in question is the one with mfg issue or not.... as with my example with selling old stock...

Because the assumption is that they are legal rostered guns in the first place when ran in DROS. If a manufacturing change occurs no matter how minute, then it fails that test per the penal code. Essentially DROS'ing a gun that is "technically" considered non-roster in the first place due to a manufacturing difference. DOJ likely doesn't know when this change occured, so they will just pull the entire listing down rather than denoting a serial number range of acceptable "rostered" guns. That's why they aren't rejecting them currently and require dealers to cancel if the roster listing is pulled due to manufacturing change.

 

[Enthused]

Picked up a P-01 a few months ago. Hopefully these don't get removed and lose the grandfather status.

As with everything, if there's a particular firearm you want, buy it now. There is no guarantee you will be able to buy it tomorrow.

 

[dickasauraswreks]

This is what we did too.

Which you guys will sell at MSRP right ... Right guys.....guys?

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

Probably just Christmas gifts for our employees honestly.

 

[BobGBA]

There's CZ's listed here in the classifieds...

 

[ugimports]

Because the assumption is that they are legal rostered guns in the first place when ran in DROS. If a manufacturing change occurs no matter how minute, then it fails that test per the penal code. Essentially DROS'ing a gun that is "technically" considered non-roster in the first place due to a manufacturing difference. DOJ likely doesn't know when this change occured, so they will just pull the entire listing down rather than denoting a serial number range of acceptable "rostered" guns. That's why they aren't rejecting them currently and require dealers to cancel if the roster listing is pulled due to manufacturing change.

What I mean is..if a CZ SP-01 is in DROS today (during 10 day wait)..and today CA DOJ says "no good"...they end up asking the FFL to Cancel the DROS.. They don't reject it from their end which they are capable of doing...my question is why?

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

What I mean is..if a CZ SP-01 is in DROS today (during 10 day wait)..and today CA DOJ says "no good"...they end up asking the FFL to Cancel the DROS.. They don't reject it from their end which they are capable of doing...my question is why?

Technically they cannot reject it themselves. They have approval, denial, and undetermined status for background check purposes, not for purposes of improper DROS. DMV reject is for DMV identification and other purposes. There is no longer a 30 day rejection status. There is no other method coded into the system for rejecting the DROS. Also the penal code dictates the action to be taken which is "shall not be deliverable". Meaning they put the onus on the dealer as they shall not select the deliver button. There are other penal codes that dictate the actions of dealers and actions of the Department, but I don't want to open that can of worms. Essentially it is the dealer's responsibility, not DOJ's, to cancel the DROS (or simply refuse delivery) if it does fall off roster while in background check.

 

[ugimports]

Technically they cannot reject it themselves. They have approval, denial, and undetermined status for background check purposes, not for purposes of improper DROS. DMV reject is for DMV identification and other purposes. There is no longer a 30 day rejection status. There is no other method coded into the system for rejecting the DROS. Also the penal code dictates the action to be taken which is "shall not be deliverable". Meaning they put the onus on the dealer as they shall not select the deliver button. There are other penal codes that dictate the actions of dealers and actions of the Department, but I don't want to open that can of worms. Essentially it is the dealer's responsibility, not DOJ's, to cancel the DROS (or simply refuse delivery) if it does fall off roster while in background check.

I long assumed they can deny for any reason (not just background check), but I don't know what they are technically allowed to do. I understand your explanation though which makes sense.

I've never encountered a stolen/lost firearm discovered during DROS, but I wonder if they Deny those or if they tell the dealer they need to Cancel it.

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

I long assumed they can deny for any reason (not just background check), but I don't know what they are technically allowed to do. I understand your explanation though which makes sense.

I've never encountered a stolen/lost firearm discovered during DROS, but I wonder if they Deny those or if they tell the dealer they need to Cancel it.

Surprisingly they cannot cancel for any reason and thus are reliant on dealers to cancel in DROS in accordance with the appropriate Penal Code. Generally in the instance of a lost or stolen firearm, LE in the correct jurisdiction of the case comes to retrieve the weapon and the dealer is required to cancel the DROS. There are times in which a customer may receive a delay response on a lost or stolen firearm to allow the LE agency to retrieve the weapon.

 

[DasTwit]

There's CZ's listed here in the classifieds...

Shhhhh