Many CZs may fall off DOJ Roster

[roger_roger]

It's simple, he purchases 27 as an individual from his business and slowly find out that he doesn't like each one at 5 per year

Just want to point out that the old repeated urban myth of "5 per year" is just that, it's a bit of the nonsense that is reddit.. What the ATF actually says is:

as per https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download

Note that there is no particular minimum number of firearms that must be sold, manufactured, or imported specified by law to be “engaged in the business.” Whether a person has been engaged in the business of dealing, manufacturing, or importing firearms, is made on a case-by-case basis. Considerations include, but are not limited to: the quantity of firearms sold, manufactured, or imported; the frequency of transactions over a period of time; the intent of the person in acquiring and disposing of firearms; and any representations made to the buyer regarding the person’s ability and willingness to obtain or transfer firearms. We recommend that you contact your local ATF office (http://www.atf.gov/field/index.html) to evaluate the facts and circumstances of your particular case.

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

Glock 36 Gen 3 is on the roster too. Are you going to DROS one of those too?

There is actually guidance from DOJ on the Glock 36, as the CA approved model has not been produced in years and the boxes state not approved for CA sale. Straw Purchase wouldn't apply either. I get what you are saying but you are really stretching the law here and are putting more constraints than the penal code and federal statute do.

 

[Dvrjon]

He can always take them into his possession and then place them on consignment at a later date. Avoids the hassle of the PPT limit cap and avoids scrutiny of "acting as a dealer without a license" as a private individual.

That still speaks to the intent behind the transfers…to circumvent the potential removal of these guns from the roster and retain a viable sales path to non-exempt individuals. I would be surprised if DOJ, as well as ATF, weren’t interested in this.

For all we know, maybe he wanted to make them all cajunized and then at a later date decided he didn't want to invest all that money and just decided to place them on consignment.

As you’ve noted, nothing has come down from DOJ on this, yet you now are creating fantasies about what the original intent was? The intent in this seems abundantly clear:

Yep. But I have 3 FFLs, one of which is a sole prop so I could if I wanted. I will just sell them as dealer handgun sales till they fall off the roster, and when or if they do they will be in my name

Does that mean you can sell them PPT to someone but also handle the FFL duties? That would be a very funny paperwork sandwich.

That's the plan!

With that, it would probably be wise to have this thread nuked.

 

[dickasauraswreks]

Just want to point out that the old repeated urban myth of "5 per year" is just that, it's a bit of the nonsense that is reddit.. What the ATF actually says is:

as per https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download

Note that there is no particular minimum number of firearms that must be sold, manufactured, or imported specified by law to be “engaged in the business.” Whether a person has been engaged in the business of dealing, manufacturing, or importing firearms, is made on a case-by-case basis. Considerations include, but are not limited to: the quantity of firearms sold, manufactured, or imported; the frequency of transactions over a period of time; the intent of the person in acquiring and disposing of firearms; and any representations made to the buyer regarding the person’s ability and willingness to obtain or transfer firearms. We recommend that you contact your local ATF office (http://www.atf.gov/field/index.html) to evaluate the facts and circumstances of your particular case.

That's federal law. CA State law has the following:

26500. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless the person has been issued a license pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.
(b) Any person violating this article is guilty of a misdemeanor.

26520. (a) Section 26500 does not apply to the infrequent sale, lease, or transfer of firearms.
(b) As used in this section, “infrequent” has the meaning provided in Section 16730.

16730. (a) As used in Section 31815 and in Division 6 (commencing with Section 26500) of Title 4, “infrequent” means both of the following are true:
(1) The person conducts less than six transactions per calendar year.
(2) The person sells, leases, or transfers no more than 50 total firearms per calendar year.
(b) As used in this section, “transaction” means a single sale, lease, or transfer of any number of firearms.

 

[Dvrjon]

This just gets better….

Coincidentally, Turners’ just announced: ”Turner’s CZ-USA Days”.
So, CZ asks all dealers to suspend all sales and Turners’ says,

“Every CZ in Stock is on sale!”

 

[Ktm45]

I was told by a guy at turners they sent all the czs back . …..and they still ran the ad . Classic….

 

[ugimports]

I was told by a guy at turners they sent all the czs back . …..and they still ran the ad . Classic….

Oddly enough I was told by a customer that their friend who just picked one up elsewhere was told "Not until end of year" will it fall off the roster. I asked for some kind of proof though (such as a memo from CZ) as that other store may have been misinformed or just looked at the generic roster expiration date. I have not heard either way from CA DOJ yet. For something like this they would typically send out a bulletin to ensure all FFLs are made aware of the update.

 

[Dvrjon]

I was told by a guy at turners….

Stopped reading.

 

[Dvrjon]

Oddly enough I was told by a customer that their friend who just picked one up elsewhere was told "Not until end of year" will it fall off the roster. I asked for some kind of proof though (such as a memo from CZ) as that other store may have been misinformed or just looked at the generic roster expiration date. I have not heard either way from CA DOJ yet. For something like this they would typically send out a bulletin to ensure all FFLs are made aware of the update.

I still think the issue is at CZ and potential negotiations with DOJ to either accept the new guns or approve them for testing. The original notice (which you helpfully posted) came from CZ as a caution and heads-up for stocking dealers, probably because CZ didn’t know if DOJ would immediately drop the guns or take a more measured approach.

 

[-D.M.-]

Raise your hand if you're surprised that the cadoj is being less than helpful/informative and that dealers all over the state are frozen out of an abundance of caution because they feel like it's almost a low-key trap waiting to be sprung and they lose their licenses.

I absolutely cannot wait to move to a free state and leave all this bull in my rearview. Speaking to all the dealers, good lord, my brothers in christ... I don't know how y'all do it. You have my utmost respect.

 

[-D.M.-]

I still think the issue is at CZ and potential negotiations with DOJ to either accept the new guns or approve them for testing. The original notice (which you helpfully posted) came from CZ as a caution and heads-up for stocking dealers, probably because CZ didn’t know if DOJ would immediately drop the guns or take a more measured approach.

I think every manufacturer treats dealing with the cadoj like walking on eggshells. It's almost seems completely arbitrary how they make decisions, so you have to find a way to "kiss the ring" and be "approved" or risk losing a potentially lucrative market to offload older, nearly obsolete firearms at a market premium.

 

[thelastmanonearth]

Are CZ's sitting on gun shelfs?

 

[Dzimi27]

I visited a gun store today (in Burbank) and there was a guy buying a CZ75 just like the one I bought.

 

[Dvrjon]

Are CZ's sitting on gun shelfs?

They seem to have disappeared from the Sportsman’s Warehouse website as CA offerings.

 

[ugimports]

I still think the issue is at CZ and potential negotiations with DOJ to either accept the new guns or approve them for testing. The original notice (which you helpfully posted) came from CZ as a caution and heads-up for stocking dealers, probably because CZ didn’t know if DOJ would immediately drop the guns or take a more measured approach.

I would tend to agree this might be happening. Just not sure where that other place was getting their information and haven't heard back yet.

 

[ugimports]

CZs officially off roster now:

Removed Handgun Models

oag.ca.gov

Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ)	CZ 75 SP-01 01152	9mm	Pistol	4.7"	01/01/2025
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ)	CZ 75 Compact (Black) 01190	9mm	Pistol	3.765"	01/01/2025
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ)	CZ 75 P-01 01199	9mm	Pistol	3.88"	01/01/2025
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ)	CZ 75 D (Black) 01194	9mm	Pistol	3.763"	01/01/2025
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ)	75 BD (Black) 01130	9mm	Pistol	4.687"	01/01/2025
Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ)	CZ 75 B (Black) 01102	9mm	Pistol	4.593"	01/01/2025

 

[Farwest_FFL]

Here is a screen shot of what the DROS drop down menu is showing today 1st January at 5:38 pm

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

I wonder if they're just delayed on paperwork on CA DOJ side.

 

[eaglemike]

It often takes a few weeks for the roster to be updated after the 1st of the year. Everything has to be renewed, more work this time of year since they changed all of them to renew on Jan 1.
I saw a couple of common metal framed CZ's for $1500 each in the marketplace a few days ago, when they were still on the roster. Some guns can sell with markup if off the roster, and some won't. It's interesting to watch. I'm thinking that metal framed CZ's aren't worth double the normal cost at this time.
I hope they get them back up on the roster. Solid, reliable pistols.

 

[EL Pistolero]

No need for anyone to be concerned about $1500 cz pistols, there are tons of ca approved/compliant/legal cz's for around $600 available on gunbroker so no one should be worried, they can just place their order in the morning and have their sp01 or p01 in ca nd shooting it in just over 10 days. There is even a cz p 01 for sale at port arms in palos verdes ca for those looking.