More Ammo Price Increases Coming

[Spork]

Can the state (CA) file a case against the vendor (non-cali vendor)?

Or they can NOT because it’s out of their jurisdiction?

Two examples are in Post #93, above.

I did notice the most recent cases are almost 10 years old at this point, so maybe it is something that is not a priority for them at this point?

Given the recent COE/FFL-03 decision and the magazine ban being held up in the supreme court for so long, they probably have bigger things on their mind especially given how easy it is to acquire a FFL-03 and COE which would then make it legal.

 

[grandpapeepap]

2013: Out-of-State companies sued by SF City Attorney for marketing and distribution of LCM “repair kits” into CA.
- - 44MAG.COM, an Oregon limited liability company;
- - EXILEMACHINE.COM, a Texas limited liability company;
- - COPES DISTRIBUTING, INC., an Ohio corporation; and
- - B & L PRODUCTIONS, INC., a Utah corporation, d/b/a CROSSROADS OF THE WEST GUN SHOWS

2017: Out-of-State companies sued by SF City Attorney for marketing and distribution of LCMs into CA.
- - Badger Mountain Supply,
- - 7.62 Precision,
- - Shooters Plus,
- - LAK Supply and Buymilsurp.com.

All companies were tied up in court for substantial periods with settlements reached against the companies.

what were the settlements?

 

[Dvrjon]

I did notice the most recent cases are almost 10 years old at this point, so maybe it is something that is not a priority for them at this point?

I suspect the prosecutions had their effect on the industry. Plus, the sale of “Repair Kits” was specifically banned by legislation in 2014. The 2017 legal actions were cleanup.

Given the recent COE/FFL-03 decision and the magazine ban being held up in the supreme court for so long, they probably have bigger things on their mind especially given how easy it is to acquire a FFL-03 and COE which would then make it legal.

An FFL-03 license DOES NOT allow one to traffic in LCMs or repair kits. You must be a licensed firearms DEALER to apply for and receive a permit to deal with these items. Please see: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/pdf/CLlcmpapp.pdf

Additionally, the magazine ban in the courts (Duncan) has stayed only the parts of the statute which pertain to prohibition of ownership of magazines and owner’s required divestiture of them (32310(c) and (d). Please see: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=32310.

 

[Spork]

An FFL-03 license DOES NOT allow one to traffic in LCMs or repair kits. You must be a licensed firearms DEALER to apply for and receive a permit to deal with these items. Please see: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/pdf/CLlcmpapp.pdf

Additionally, the magazine ban in the courts (Duncan) has stayed only the parts of the statute which pertain to prohibition of ownership of magazines and owner’s required divestiture of them (32310(c) and (d). Please see: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=32310.

I was talking more about the ammo shipping legality with regards to the FFL-03 and COE thing, point being that I think the companies that are willing to ship are taking their chances that either CA won't bother prosecuting, or that they can shift the blame to the consumer as another poster mentioned in the affidavit for ASW.

 

[Dvrjon]

what were the settlements?

-Injunction on sales to CA
-Requirement to alter Internet sites to specifically state no shipment to CA
-Removal of CA zip codes from ordering files
-Payment to the city of costs of litigation.

The major win here was the city wanted customer lists and the vendors held out against that.

 

[b5nguyen]

Two examples are in Post #93, above.

I was talking more about the ammo shipping legality with regards to the FFL-03 and COE thing, point being that I think the companies that are willing to ship are taking their chances that either CA won't bother prosecuting, or that they can shift the blame to the consumer as another poster mentioned in the affidavit for ASW.

I was talking more about the ammo shipping legality with regards to the FFL-03 and COE thing, point being that I think the companies that are willing to ship are taking their chances that either CA won't bother prosecuting, or that they can shift the blame to the consumer as another poster mentioned in the affidavit for ASW.

I was talking more about the ammo shipping legality with regards to the FFL-03 and COE thing, point being that I think the companies that are willing to ship are taking their chances that either CA won't bother prosecuting, or that they can shift the blame to the consumer as another poster mentioned in the affidavit for ASW.

I was talking more about the ammo shipping legality with regards to the FFL-03 and COE thing, point being that I think the companies that are willing to ship are taking their chances that either CA won't bother prosecuting, or that they can shift the blame to the consumer as another poster mentioned in the affidavit for ASW.

Found the motivation to go back to LAW SCHOOL!! Firearm law instead of corporate

NOT LEGAL ADVICE/INFO so “take the info with preference it’s from an internet dumbass”

GOOGLE SEARCH:
Purchasing of ammo without license or background check would be considered an “infection”, similar to owning an LCM.

Like $1000 straight up for ammo vs $100 per mag.

Based on simple home economics (thanks GED), if you can save 10 cents a round and you purchased 10k rounds, it’s “WORTH” HAHHAHA

IT IS NOT WORTH!!!

 

[grandpapeepap]

-Injunction on sales to CA
-Requirement to alter Internet sites to specifically state no shipment to CA
-Removal of CA zip codes from ordering files
-Payment to the city of costs of litigation.

The major win here was the city wanted customer lists and the vendors held out against that.

as always i appreciate the info and knowledge you bring

 

[Dvrjon]

I was talking more about the ammo shipping legality with regards to the FFL-03 and COE thing,…

FFL-03+COE out-of-state purchasing has been in place since Nov 2016 with the passage of Prop 63. It’s fully legal.

… point being that I think the companies that are willing to ship are taking their chances that either CA won't bother prosecuting, or that they can shift the blame to the consumer as another poster mentioned in the affidavit for ASW.

I was the “(an)other poster”.

The difference in the LCM litigations and the importation of ammunition by individuals is fairly stark.
- The importation of LCMs by general citizenry is banned, it is illegal, and makes it an easy target for litigation. If found guilty, the penalty is a felony (which may “wobble” to a misdemeanor) depending upon how “cooperative” you are with the DA.
- The importation of ammunition by general citizenry is controlled but not banned. The FFL-03+COE allows importation both by sales and in person. Even without the credentials, you can receive gifts of ammo from family members and friends, (so long as you don’t have reason to believe they are a prohibited person). That makes the importation of ammo a bit more fluid. Also, a first-time offense is a citation with meager fine.

Regarding the Affidavit nonsense from this particular firm, I would expect it to fail legal scrutiny, given their blaring announcement on their landing page that their policy for California is: “You order; We ship”.

Best.

 

[Bobalover209]

Found the motivation to go back to LAW SCHOOL!! Firearm law instead of corporate

NOT LEGAL ADVICE/INFO so “take the info with preference it’s from an internet dumbass”

GOOGLE SEARCH:
Purchasing of ammo without license or background check would be considered an “infection”, similar to owning an LCM.

Like $1000 straight up for ammo vs $100 per mag.

Based on simple home economics (thanks GED), if you can save 10 cents a round and you purchased 10k rounds, it’s “WORTH” HAHHAHA

IT IS NOT WORTH!!!

It can be an infraction for the first offense, and an infraction and/or misdemeanor for the second offense. Plus a possible fine for either circumstance.

 

[Gawernator]

It can be an infraction for the first offense, and an infraction and/or misdemeanor for the second offense. Plus a possible fine for either circumstance.

Misdemeanor for the first offense. For a normal California resident who buys ammo in a transaction that should have gone through a licensed ammo vendor/FFL but did not, the relevant rule is usually Penal Code § 30312: ammunition sales generally must be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor, and remote/online/out-of-state purchases must go through a licensed vendor for delivery. A violation of § 30312 is a misdemeanor.

Infraction is if you buy it in another state and import it. But if you buy online out of state, does that count?

 

[couragewolf]

I just sold my Ducati 899 racebike. Long story since I only raced on Kawasaki's mainly

Pretty finnicky for someone actually riding that hard I bet you know how to do valve adjustments like the back of your hand.

All the dudes I knew that were actually going hard were diehard Honda guys. I was pretty casual rider prone to routine bouts of hooligan . Couple toddlers at home really dumps your moto time though. I'm def getting 'em dirt bikes tho.

 

[Gawernator]

That’s just insane! No reason for such crazy delays other than they just don’t actually have the product on hand when they list it for sale.

Yeah due to reddit saying that my expectations were low and I was fine waiting even a month since it was good ammo for cheap but..... at this point I'd rather have my hundreds of dollars back and buy elsewhere

 

[couragewolf]

I still can't wrap my head around how many people are willing to provide their name, address, and credit card information on a digital trail for an illegal activity. ASW will not go out of their way to protect you, if it's between saving themselves or their customers, they will choose themselves every time.

As others said, just get your ffl03/COE, and have the freedom to get ammo from more vendors at cheaper prices without the worry of legal repercussions.

Wanna know HOW the Palantir databases that are starting to stream real time into every police car actually work cause I've got bad news

 

[Gawernator]

Pretty finnicky for someone actually riding that hard I bet you know how to do valve adjustments like the back of your hand.

All the dudes I knew that were actually going hard were diehard Honda guys. I was pretty casual rider prone to routine bouts of hooligan . Couple toddlers at home really dumps your moto time though. I'm def getting 'em dirt bikes tho.

Lol ironically I've never done a valve adjustment bwahahah. I was lucky to have great engine builders around me especially when I started doing pro races. We would just do valves once a season during the rebuild

 

[Gawernator]

Wanna know HOW the Palantir databases that are starting to stream real time into every police car actually work cause I've got bad news

Palantir was my fav to use when I worked at ONI. Way before they were mainstream popular like now. I use Delvepoint now as a filthy civilian

 

[couragewolf]

Lol ironically I've never done a valve adjustment bwahahah. I was lucky to have great engine builders around me especially when I started doing pro races. We would just do valves once a season during the rebuild

My man is eating caviar on toast inbetween rides to cool down

 

[couragewolf]

Palantir was my fav to use when I worked at ONI. Way before they were mainstream popular like now. I use Delvepoint now as a filthy civilian

I've worked with quite a few of their top FDE's and built decentralized support systems for a bunch of their european contracts. I've gotten a bit of a look at their aggregation approach, and I genuinely don't think anyone that ever had an issue with the ATF building a gun registry database has any idea how much more insane this is than that would've been. Like, we don't need a record that you've purchased a gun we know you're the type of person that would with a 96% probability.

 

[grandpapeepap]

Wanna know HOW the Palantir databases that are starting to stream real time into every police car actually work cause I've got bad news

also signaltrace is going to expand what their cameras can track that is given to LEO, can track any smart devices like phones, tablets, wearables, airtags, and even stuff inside cars. now the plate readers will do more for our non surveillance state

 

[Gawernator]

I've worked with quite a few of their top FDE's and built decentralized support systems for a bunch of their european contracts. I've gotten a bit of a look at their aggregation approach, and I genuinely don't think anyone that ever had an issue with the ATF building a gun registry database has any idea how much more insane this is than that would've been. Like, we don't need a record that you've purchased a gun we know you're the type of person that would with a 96% probability.

woah

 

[grandpapeepap]

I've worked with quite a few of their top FDE's and built decentralized support systems for a bunch of their european contracts. I've gotten a bit of a look at their aggregation approach, and I genuinely don't think anyone that ever had an issue with the ATF building a gun registry database has any idea how much more insane this is than that would've been. Like, we don't need a record that you've purchased a gun we know you're the type of person that would with a 96% probability.

i thought registries were illegal? which is why they are called a database. TOTALLY different of course