Moving out for a bit... what should I get before I come back?

[Skilly]

Yea he does have to get a new id become a resident, the he can purchase his firearm then come back to Ca and establish residency again, most states if your living/working there for over 6 months you have to register as a resident. Dmv told me that when I went to Kansas

Thats half of it. The least important half. I have a Vegas house and with my deed and utility bill I can establish residency and do all of those things too. What I can't do is say I don't live in CA.

CADOJ has very specific rules about whether or not you are considered a resident of CA, regardless of what you establish in another state. Leaving temporarily doesn't count as departing the state. Assets like a house, car insurance/registration, utility bills,etc... - those things establish residency and CA wont consider you as a new resident upon your return.

 

[BARvS]

CADOJ has very specific rules about whether or not you are considered a resident of CA

Very specific rules? That sounds awesome. What are those rules? So far it seems like a pretty grey/subjective/feeling based thing. I would love a proper definitive list like "No housing contract (rent/lease), no registered car in CA, gone for 3 months or more, and give up CA ID, then boom, not a resident anymore."

The best analog for this forum I can think of is this:

1. Shall issue. If you meet the legal requirements that are spelled out very specifically with no grey area, you get a CCW license. This is what I'd love because it doesn't matter how fishy the situation looks. If every requirement is met, then every requirement is met and I'm officially a non-CA resident moving into CA after leaving it some time ago. Even if I have "I LEFT TO GET OFF-ROSTER PISTOLS" tattooed on my forehead, it wouldn't matter because I met the requirements and there isn't any room for someone to interpret things or determine intent or whatever.

2. May issue. Even if you meet the legal requirements, the issuing authority can still deny you because the sheriff woke up on the wrong side of the bed or is biased or whatever. This is what it sounds like so far in this thread. Even if you essentially leave the state and aren't a resident; you give up your ID, you don't have a home in the state, you have a free state DL and lease etc. the DOJ can still just say "nah, smells fishy. You are still a CA resident." This is the kind of system I hate because it's rife with bias, subjectivity, and luck.

 

[jayson_b24]

You guys are putting waaaaaay too much thought into this. Have you ever lived in CA? Visited CA? Seen CA on a map? Heard "California Love" by Tupac and Dr. Dre? Congratulations! You're a CA resident. You will forever and always be a CA resident. Move out of state? Leave the country? Join Elon on Mars? Still a CA resident. No soup... I mean... off-roster for you!

(There, wasn't that a nice visit?
Don't forget, a psychiatrist is on duty twenty-four hours a day in the blue room
Just up from the parking garage
Drink plenty of water when you take these
Now you can relax
And return to your job!)

 

[Skilly]

Very specific rules? That sounds awesome. What are those rules? So far it seems like a pretty grey/subjective/feeling based thing. I would love a proper definitive list like "No housing contract (rent/lease), no registered car in CA, gone for 3 months or more, and give up CA ID, then boom, not a resident anymore."

I guess you are assuming that this is a new concept? It's a pattern CA DOJ and ATF are at least aware of and have prosecuted against. The grey are is that its largely reactionary. Lots of cases to reference though, including one this year:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sd/pr/california-man-sentenced-federal-prison-making-false-statements-while-purchasing

He was sentenced to 15months in Federal Prison, 2 years of Supervised Release, $5,300 in fines and all of his firearms confiscated - and of course, all of the fun of a conviction.

Most of the convictions are from charges related to Federal laws regarding False Statements, and Unlawful Transport. If you claim residency it needs to be coupled with intent. If the government can show your claimed out-of-state residency was a sham, then the out-of-state purchase was made under a false representation of residency. All they need to do is review that person's background and see a CA Drivers license, vehicle, a house, filed state taxes (good luck skirting those requirements - some of the most stringent in the Union), cell phone, Fastrak...aka the breadcrumbs of residency, its pretty easy to establish that your intent was not to leave the state.

Do it once might be cool. But the overwhelming amount of work it would take to show intent isn't worth it. So, just call it what it is - rolling the dice. This is why off Roster guns are close to double the cost to access in CA.

 

[mossy]

You are being sent out of state on a work trip, you aren't moving.....do you even have the required documents to establish residency in the new state?

 

[1911-CV]

I guess you are assuming that this is a new concept? It's a pattern CA DOJ and ATF are at least aware of and have prosecuted against. The grey are is that its largely reactionary. Lots of cases to reference though, including one this year:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sd/pr/california-man-sentenced-federal-prison-making-false-statements-while-purchasing

He was sentenced to 15months in Federal Prison, 2 years of Supervised Release, $5,300 in fines and all of his firearms confiscated - and of course, all of the fun of a conviction.

Most of the convictions are from charges related to Federal laws regarding False Statements, and Unlawful Transport. If you claim residency it needs to be coupled with intent. If the government can show your claimed out-of-state residency was a sham, then the out-of-state purchase was made under a false representation of residency. All they need to do is review that person's background and see a CA Drivers license, vehicle, a house, filed state taxes (good luck skirting those requirements - some of the most stringent in the Union), cell phone, Fastrak...aka the breadcrumbs of residency, its pretty easy to establish that your intent was not to leave the state.

Do it once might be cool. But the overwhelming amount of work it would take to show intent isn't worth it. So, just call it what it is - rolling the dice. This is why off Roster guns are close to double the cost to access in CA.

Isn't this post mixing a federal crime with CA's residency hoops? Federal residency requirements are much more forgiving as they get taxes regardless of which state you live in. Folks with multiple homes routinely have federal residency in multiple jurisdictions during the year (whichever house they happen to be living in at the time). CA is much more aggressive in claiming people are still residents after they leave the state, or that they were residents all along if they come back. But violating CA's residency rule doesn't win you a federal sentence...

Whether a temporary work assignment qualifies for either state or federal residency may be a question for an actual lawyer...

 

[Gawernator]

Isn't this post mixing a federal crime with CA's residency hoops? Federal residency requirements are much more forgiving as they get taxes regardless of which state you live in. Folks with multiple homes routinely have federal residency in multiple jurisdictions during the year (whichever house they happen to be living in at the time). CA is much more aggressive in claiming people are still residents after they leave the state, or that they were residents all along if they come back. But violating CA's residency rule doesn't win you a federal sentence...

Whether a temporary work assignment qualifies for either state or federal residency may be a question for an actual lawyer...

I already looked it up. You have to have intent to make your home in the new state. So by the law no he would still be a CA resident since he’s on a work trip. He might be able to change all his docs and get away with it tbh but it’s probably illegal. The question is would anything be enforced? He just needs plausible deniability.

But it seems too risky tbh. But if he purchased private party with no background check then who’s going to know too? When I was on orders in Virginia I remember you could buy off each other in a Walmart parking lot and that was legal lol

 

[Skilly]

Isn't this post mixing a federal crime with CA's residency hoops? Federal residency requirements are much more forgiving as they get taxes regardless of which state you live in. Folks with multiple homes routinely have federal residency in multiple jurisdictions during the year (whichever house they happen to be living in at the time). CA is much more aggressive in claiming people are still residents after they leave the state, or that they were residents all along if they come back. But violating CA's residency rule doesn't win you a federal sentence...

Whether a temporary work assignment qualifies for either state or federal residency may be a question for an actual lawyer...

With the cases that show up under these circumstances its the Feds doing the charging and it looks like their favorite place to poke is False Statements. The CADOJ involvement is passive and appears related to receiving the new resident registration filing. They are not the investigating agency. Also, these arent tax fraud cases, these are ATF charges. Where you pay tax is just part of the evidence of intent, but I don't think its a trigger by itself; as you mention, the Fed gets their money regardless.

I think this comes from FFL audits or reporting suspicious activity, crime tips etc. The case sentenced this year involved 7 firearms so there might have been a reporting trigger or something of the sort.

 

[BARvS]

I guess you are assuming that this is a new concept? It's a pattern CA DOJ and ATF are at least aware of and have prosecuted against. The grey are is that its largely reactionary. Lots of cases to reference though, including one this year:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sd/pr/california-man-sentenced-federal-prison-making-false-statements-while-purchasing

He was sentenced to 15months in Federal Prison, 2 years of Supervised Release, $5,300 in fines and all of his firearms confiscated - and of course, all of the fun of a conviction.

Most of the convictions are from charges related to Federal laws regarding False Statements, and Unlawful Transport. If you claim residency it needs to be coupled with intent. If the government can show your claimed out-of-state residency was a sham, then the out-of-state purchase was made under a false representation of residency. All they need to do is review that person's background and see a CA Drivers license, vehicle, a house, filed state taxes (good luck skirting those requirements - some of the most stringent in the Union), cell phone, Fastrak...aka the breadcrumbs of residency, its pretty easy to establish that your intent was not to leave the state.

Do it once might be cool. But the overwhelming amount of work it would take to show intent isn't worth it. So, just call it what it is - rolling the dice. This is why off Roster guns are close to double the cost to access in CA.

I think it's very easy to see that this Barba's plan was never going to work. The home he "lived" in wasn't actually a home and everything was built on that fraudulent foundation. The difference is, I have no such fraudulent foundation. I'm going to get a legitimate contract to live in an actual home for multiple months. I will get an ID legally because I actually live there. I will give up my CA license. I'm not going to have a house in CA during this time. I won't have to make any false statements because I will legitimately be living somewhere else for a little while whereas Barba was waking up and going to sleep in CA.

You are being sent out of state on a work trip, you aren't moving.....do you even have the required documents to establish residency in the new state?

I do.

Isn't this post mixing a federal crime with CA's residency hoops? Federal residency requirements are much more forgiving as they get taxes regardless of which state you live in. Folks with multiple homes routinely have federal residency in multiple jurisdictions during the year (whichever house they happen to be living in at the time). CA is much more aggressive in claiming people are still residents after they leave the state, or that they were residents all along if they come back. But violating CA's residency rule doesn't win you a federal sentence...

Whether a temporary work assignment qualifies for either state or federal residency may be a question for an actual lawyer...

That case is honestly irrelevant here. It's just straight up fraud.

 

[RickD427]

You guys are putting waaaaaay too much thought into this. Have you ever lived in CA? Visited CA? Seen CA on a map? Heard "California Love" by Tupac and Dr. Dre? Congratulations! You're a CA resident. You will forever and always be a CA resident. Move out of state? Leave the country? Join Elon on Mars? Still a CA resident. No soup... I mean... off-roster for you!

(There, wasn't that a nice visit?
Don't forget, a psychiatrist is on duty twenty-four hours a day in the blue room
Just up from the parking garage
Drink plenty of water when you take these
Now you can relax
And return to your job!)

The Eagles summed it up very nicely, about 50 years ago in their classic song, which was very appropriately titled "Hotel California":

"You can check out, but you can never leave......"

 

[lactoast]

The Eagles summed it up very nicely, about 50 years ago in their classic song, which was very appropriately titled "Hotel California":

"You can check out, but you can never leave......"

“Commiefornia” always makes me roll my eyes, but this reminds me of when I was actually visiting China. My host was telling me how even if I was born and raised in the US, I would be considered one of theirs because of common ancestry, as if I didn’t have a choice.

lol F that. And all this murkiness about state residency is giving me similar vibes.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

You should get your head examined if you're able to leave but coming back.

 

[Neffsaid]

BUY EVERYTHING!

 

[ar15robert]

First you need to post about moving out of state temporarily then you can ask what guns you should buy so you can bring back.LOL

But theres more to it only safe way is is to leave completely without owning any thing in ca or anything that ties you to ca.Many think since they have a home out of state and one in ca that they can claim dual residence and buy the guns they want but legally you can only be a resident of one state thats where you register to vote file taxes etc.

Do as you choose may get caught might not.But to have made it simple move to other state get new lic there file taxes there register to vote there all made easier if you are renting now.Cut the rent here too this rids all ties and if job doesnt work out well you move back. redo the lic taxes etc.

 

[mossy]

I think it's very easy to see that this Barba's plan was never going to work. The home he "lived" in wasn't actually a home and everything was built on that fraudulent foundation. The difference is, I have no such fraudulent foundation. I'm going to get a legitimate contract to live in an actual home for multiple months. I will get an ID legally because I actually live there. I will give up my CA license. I'm not going to have a house in CA during this time. I won't have to make any false statements because I will legitimately be living somewhere else for a little while whereas Barba was waking up and going to sleep in CA.


I do.


That case is honestly irrelevant here. It's just straight up fraud.

You aren't actually moving to a new state, but you do you buddy.

 

[Skilly]

You aren't actually moving to a new state, but you do you buddy.

and nothing like documenting the plan on a public forum before you do that do part.

 

[Gawernator]

Yeah if this thread wasn’t created he may have gotten away with it but still a dice roll

 

[FX-05 Xiuhcoatl]

20 AR 15 lower receivers register as pistol.
5 glock 19 gen 6
5 glock 17 gen 6

 

[jayson_b24]

Yeah if this thread wasn’t created he may have gotten away with it but still a dice roll

He might would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids.

 

[chiroken007]