Only ship FFL to FFL! Shipping a gun through pirateship or just making a label at your own risk

[Shellbackitup]

Ok, this thread now has me completely relooking at how I get work done on my guns.

My paranoia is off the charts now.

I have shipped nearly 10 firearms and slides combined to Cajun Gun Works, Fords Customs, Galloway, and others for custom work and to CZ and Ruger for warranty work (1ea), over the last 10 years, some as recently as this spring.

I always shipped overnight FedEx and was shipped the firearms directly on completion/return (as allowed for FFLs doing gunsmith or warranty work as I understood it)

Apparently I just got lucky.

Looks like I won't be doing that anymore.

 

[Hindsight]

Juice just isn't worth the squeeze in the current environment. Less risky and you have more recourse, I would assume, if it goes FFL to FFL.

 

[Gawernator]

Ok, this thread now has me completely relooking at how I get work done on my guns.

My paranoia is off the charts now.

I have shipped nearly 10 firearms and slides combined to Cajun Gun Works, Fords Customs, Galloway, and others for custom work and to CZ and Ruger for warranty work (1ea), over the last 10 years, some as recently as this spring.

I always shipped overnight FedEx and was shipped the firearms directly on completion/return (as allowed for FFLs doing gunsmith or warranty work as I understood it)

Apparently I just got lucky.

Looks like I won't be doing that anymore.

You're probably going to be fine 99% of the time especially because you did overnight shipping. What happened here most likely is an employee tried to get away with stealing the gun. The fact the employee destroyed the airtag is not a coincidence lol

 

[1911-CV]

And he probably used FFL-provided shipping labels which continue to be just fine...

DON'T PANIC

 

[Dvrjon]

Ok, this thread now has me completely relooking at how I get work done on my guns.

My paranoia is off the charts now.

I have shipped nearly 10 firearms and slides combined to Cajun Gun Works, Fords Customs, Galloway, and others for custom work and to CZ and Ruger for warranty work (1ea), over the last 10 years, some as recently as this spring.

I always shipped overnight FedEx and was shipped the firearms directly on completion/return (as allowed for FFLs doing gunsmith or warranty work as I understood it)

Apparently I just got lucky.

Looks like I won't be doing that anymore.

Think about how you went about shipping those guns. Did you simply walk into FedEx with the gun in the box and ship it? ) Or, did you get a shipping lable from the vendors (warranty work would have provided you with a shipping label, and I know CGW provides a pre-paid label). In those cases, the Fl is shipping to themselves.

 

[Gawernator]

Ok, this thread now has me completely relooking at how I get work done on my guns.

My paranoia is off the charts now.

I have shipped nearly 10 firearms and slides combined to Cajun Gun Works, Fords Customs, Galloway, and others for custom work and to CZ and Ruger for warranty work (1ea), over the last 10 years, some as recently as this spring.

I always shipped overnight FedEx and was shipped the firearms directly on completion/return (as allowed for FFLs doing gunsmith or warranty work as I understood it)

Apparently I just got lucky.

Looks like I won't be doing that anymore.

Did they provide you the label? Or did you generate it yourself? That's the difference really.

 

[Shellbackitup]

And he probably used FFL-provided shipping labels which continue to be just fine...

DON'T PANIC

Hahaha not panicking, just realizing I screwed up in the last by not being 100% familiar with the proper methods to ship.

I have 100% walked into a FedEx office and shipped on my dime without a label to a FFL or gunsmith.

I have also shipped on prepaid labels provided by FFL's or gunsmiths.

I won't be doing the former any longer.

 

[Shellbackitup]

Think about how you went about shipping those guns. Did you simply walk into FedEx with the gun in the box and ship it? ) Or, did you get a shipping lable from the vendors (warranty work would have provided you with a shipping label, and I know CGW provides a pre-paid label). In those cases, the Fl is shipping to themselves.

I am sure CGW provides labels NOW, as I have used them recently

However back in 2017 they had me go to FedEx and ship myself, no prepaid label (I just checked my emails from back then) and declare it as "machined parts" not a firearm.

So it wasn't just me being reckless, I followed the instructions I was given and was at risk I wasn't aware of

 

[D.A.V.I.D.]

Machined parts is exactly what Cajun told me to say when I shipped a couple guns to them about 10 years ago.

 

[Dvrjon]

I am sure CGW provides labels NOW, as I have used them recently

However back in 2017 they had me go to FedEx and ship myself, no prepaid label (I just checked my emails from back then) and declare it as "machined parts" not a firearm.

So it wasn't just me being reckless, I followed the instructions I was given and was at risk I wasn't aware of

No one said you were reckless, at least I didn’t. The constraints on FedEx and UPS are relatively recent, as about 5 years ago I FedEx’d a Colt to an FFL as a declared firearm and nobody blinked. FedEx changed the policy in Aug 2022.

 

[Shellbackitup]

No one said you were reckless, at least I didn’t. The constraints on FedEx and UPS are relatively recent, as about 5 years ago I FedEx’d a Colt to an FFL as a declared firearm and nobody blinked. FedEx changed the policy in Aug 2022.

The policy change timing makes perfect sense.

Recent shipments that I checked have all been via prepaid label. Only shipments before 2020 and shipments of slides were done at FedEx on my dime.

I was (incorrectly) assuming I had been reckless in the past, and shipped firearms improperly without knowing it, and that's what spurred my comment.

Thanks for giving me context!

 

[Gawernator]

I am sure CGW provides labels NOW, as I have used them recently

However back in 2017 they had me go to FedEx and ship myself, no prepaid label (I just checked my emails from back then) and declare it as "machined parts" not a firearm.

So it wasn't just me being reckless, I followed the instructions I was given and was at risk I wasn't aware of

They were having you skirt the carrier rules, they've always required declaring a firearm. A slide is NOT a firearm by the way. The frame or FCU on a handgun is the firearm.

 

[Shellbackitup]

They were having you skirt the carrier rules, they've always required declaring a firearm. A slide is NOT a firearm by the way. The frame or FCU on a handgun is the firearm.

This appears to be the case. It's no longer a concern since they do prepaid labels for the last several years, so I'm not going to ding them for it. They did great work on multiple guns over the years, and I would recommend them to anyone.

Slides and other non-serialized parts were never a worry as far as declarations, but I still ship them overnight and with a very high insurance value, since slides aren't typically easy to replace. This has always seemed to ensure the shipment arrives when promised, is given high priority if delays such as weather occur, and is found VERY quickly if misplaced. I admittedly pay extra for peace of mind.

 

[Dvrjon]

The policy change timing makes perfect sense.

I was (incorrectly) assuming I had been reckless in the past, and shipped firearms improperly without knowing it, and that's what spurred my comment.

Thanks for giving me context!

Just to close out, for those following along and think the question is begging....UPS initiated a similar policy also in August 2022.

 

[Gawernator]

Just to close out, for those following along and think the question is begging....UPS initiated a similar policy also in August 2022.

What actually changed? Didn't you always have to declare a firearm

 

[Dvrjon]

What actually changed? Didn't you always have to declare a firearm

You didn't have to, but if you did, they would accept it. However, at one time, I may have sent a, "Piece of art; metal sculpture" to my Dad. He enjoyed the 1971, Nickle, 6-inch barrel, Colt Python very much.

But what has actually changed is that now they won't accept a declared firearm unless you have an FFL account agreement with them.

 

[Gawernator]

That's funny.

 

[p--and--p]

Update... I have been posting it on 1911addicts in the 2011 section there:



Ok- finally back in town and spoke to the amazing ATF agent who took it upon himself to save this gun for me.. These are the final FACTS-

1. By shipping with UPS, the fine print says they can do whatever with the contents if something is deemed illegal or wrong or whatever- once I ship- they own the contents.
2. Someone at the port of Oakland, CA (he thought it could be customs) flagged my package and they put a new label on it and shipped it to a 3RD PARTY. This 3rd party is NOT the atf. It is some company who has authority to destroy packages that UPS gives them including guns. UPS does not have to detail any of this, they just handed it off to them.
3. Thank GOD, the 3rd party didn't do the work immediately, but my lifesaving ATF agent got it back from them. He told them he spoke to me and it was a misunderstanding and they acknowledged his authority and gave it to him. He said it was slated soon for destruction indeed... because of the sensitive items, was on a fast track.
4. UPS tried to get the package back from this 3rd party but they could not after a few attempts. The UPS person who was handling my case (I was calling 3x a day) told me they tried and will keep trying if possible, but it seemed like somehow they couldn't and then gave up. How the ATF guy got it and they couldn't is a mystery.
5. ATF Agent told me they have nothing to do with this process and this 3rd party can indeed destroy the contents and they do not have to do give me any paper trial of documentation.
6. UPS told me there is no claim happening and absolutely no money back when this was all unfolding. After the agent has my package now, I just called them and they finally refunded me my original Label price $200 (insured for $6000) they didn't want to until a supervisor got on the phone and said he would. I told em I was told I can get a refund since they "never delivered" my package and that seems correct. So at least that got back to me.

Bottom line, is UPS can easily send anything off for destruction and you are just screwed. It must go FFL to FFL, despite what ANYONE tells you. Do your due diligence, I didn't- I just did what was told to do thinking insurance is the key. Seems like insurance would be hard to get anyways.

 

[Unbend]

Ok, this thread now has me completely relooking at how I get work done on my guns.

My paranoia is off the charts now.

I have shipped nearly 10 firearms and slides combined to Cajun Gun Works, Fords Customs, Galloway, and others for custom work and to CZ and Ruger for warranty work (1ea), over the last 10 years, some as recently as this spring.

I always shipped overnight FedEx and was shipped the firearms directly on completion/return (as allowed for FFLs doing gunsmith or warranty work as I understood it)

Apparently I just got lucky.

Looks like I won't be doing that anymore.

I just sent my Ruger LCP MAX pistol in for service (FedEx). If you use the vendor / FFL supplied shipping labels you are good to go. They are supposed to be on the hook for ensuring that the labels are created in compliance with shipping requirements.
The only requirement is that the box not indicated or be labeled that it contains a firearm.

Plus, as courtesy, throw a chamber flag in for good measure.

 

[p--and--p]

Basically my gun was a day or two away from being destroyed. UPS owed me no explanation or paper trail.
An ATF agent heard my crying voicemails and looked into it and saved it.
I owe him a 6 pack