Only ship FFL to FFL! Shipping a gun through pirateship or just making a label at your own risk

[Unbend]

It's definitely a miracle they managed to pull that off for you.

Maybe a whole keg for saving your 1911.

 

[p--and--p]

It's definitely a miracle they managed to pull that off for you.

Maybe a whole keg for saving your 1911.

Yup, he will even ship it on his own dime since this wasn't an official thing! I told him I need to pay for that and more.. He got my voicemail and he said he thought it sounded important. He could get through to UPS and found it.

Insane, UPS can just send a gun off to get destroyed without atf or anything. The gunsmith said that was impossible. He also told me to make my own label, so yea...

 

[Dvrjon]

Basically my gun was a day or two away from being destroyed. UPS owed me no explanation or paper trail.
An ATF agent heard my crying voicemails and looked into it and saved it.
I owe him a 6 pack

Now, name the clown that set you on this path. That level of professional stupidity deserves public recognition.

 

[Unbend]

As a gunsmith, they are supposed to have an FFL01 and should have known better than to give that advice.

The only acceptable "print a label at home" is if they provide you a label to print.

 

[Gawernator]

Yup, he will even ship it on his own dime since this wasn't an official thing! I told him I need to pay for that and more.. He got my voicemail and he said he thought it sounded important. He could get through to UPS and found it.

Insane, UPS can just send a gun off to get destroyed without atf or anything. The gunsmith said that was impossible. He also told me to make my own label, so yea...

That still doesn't seem legally sound, what are the laws surrounding this?

Crazy story with the ATF agent

 

[p--and--p]

Now, name the clown that set you on this path. That level of professional stupidity deserves public recognition.

I did name the gunsmith in the other forum.

It is the biggest name for the 2011 world and lots of other work. it is DSC Gunworks in Michigan. David is very well known and does great work. He told me how to ship and thats what I did without looking into it myself and thats how I got to where I am. He is correct on the "law" but UPS has more stringent requirements and they cant do that so I understand them in a way, although no transparency and no way to fight it is INSANE-- but yea when I handed it to em, they owned it.

DSC is huge and do the best work and make custom barrels and everything, so I dont have animosity towards them, heck the gun is still going there - but should I have actually lost the gun- I dunno where it would have lead

 

[p--and--p]

That still doesn't seem legally sound, what are the laws surrounding this?

Crazy story with the ATF agent

He told UPS he is an agent and he has the authority for Firearms and the 3rd party agreed to give it to him. Its now up to him to do the legal stuff. He said he looked in the package since it was open and say my paperwork for the gunsmith stuff and the parts and said this is not right and wanted to help me. On the voicemails I left, I literally told the atf office that I worked for months to save up for this- it wasn't a "glock" but a rare no longer made 2011 worth $7000 or more and he said he felt like he had to help. WILD indeed, a random office worker saved me from a mental breakdown

 

[Hindsight]

First time I've heard of an ATF agent actually assisting. Good for you OP!

 

[SilverEndless]

Love to hear/read this. So glad to hear you’re getting your firearm back. So glad you found someone to step in and save it. So glad it wasn’t too late.

Too bad you can’t buy the ATF agent a beer or something as a gesture of gratitude. That man deserves a pat on the back and recognition for the good deed.

Score one for the ATF.

 

[smoothy8500]

That still doesn't seem legally sound, what are the laws surrounding this?

He told UPS he is an agent and he has the authority for Firearms and the 3rd party agreed to give it to him

I wonder who the "third party" was?

A friend used to work at Avis car rental and one time they found a pistol in the glove compartment. He said they called the Sherriff instead of trying to track down the original person that rented the car. Apparently the LASO officer picking it up told them they would just "melt it" as a found weapon.....

 

[p--and--p]

I wonder who the "third party" was?

A friend used to work at Avis car rental and one time they found a pistol in the glove compartment. He said they called the Sherriff instead of trying to track down the original person that rented the car. Apparently the LASO officer picking it up told them they would just "melt it" as a found weapon.....

I have been speaking to alot of people in the gun community and no one has any idea of who it could be. Most swore to me that only ATF can do this, but turns out, nope! So yes, they can dispose of em once UPS hands off the package to them and says they have nothing to do with it anymore

 

[Gawernator]

enjoy the read

https://assets.ups.com/adobe/assets/urn%3Aaaid%3Aaem%3Ac6bf8a2f-018f-4aa0-838b-ffc1a75eb1d9/original/as/terms-carriage-us-en.pdf

 

[FriedChickies]

Crazy story. Glad you got your Atlas back. Which model?

 

[Experimentalist]

Unfortunately I'm not quite tracking how this third party tumbled to the fact there was a firearm within the package. I suppose X-Ray inspection?

Do you have any further insights into this?

 

[Gawernator]

Employee theft. That's why the airtag was destroyed

 

[Experimentalist]

An employee attempted theft, and was caught?

I had caliber conversion parts and ammo shipped during COVID, and all that showed up at the FFL was a mangled cardboard box and one box of ammo. Talking to the vendor, apparently theft is fairly rampant; if there's address indications of a firearms related company involved, it's a target.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Gawernator]

An employee attempted theft, and was caught?

I had caliber conversion parts and ammo shipped during COVID, and all that showed up at the FFL was a mangled cardboard box and one box of ammo. Talking to the vendor, apparently theft is fairly rampant; if there's address indications of a firearms related company involved, it's a target.

Thanks for the info.

I can't say it for sure of course but it seems the most likely by far. Why else is an employee opening the package and also destroying an airtag? Seems more likely he got caught, and then the gun was somehow sent for destruction - assuming all of this is real. Plus, Oakland UPS? Yeah, theft hotspot for sure

 

[DB>)>]

As others said that is against federal law, it has to be declared. Yet everyone i spoke to says they do not when they ship.. The FFL told me to say it was a firearm so had I not said it - it would have probably been ok but I did because I wanted to follow the law. Just sucks he missed out the part I'm not supposed to do it with UPS, even though california law says I can- UPS says no.

The debacle is why do they think they can destroy the package rather than send back or something.. Give it to police and I have to get it, ANYTHING. If I had money I would do a lawsuit but theres no winning, even though their policy seems to be on the illegal side. Some 3rd party says yes give it to us and we just get rid of it.

Remember that story with the guy who saved the squirrel and lived with it for a year and then the feds came in and just killed it the same day they took it without taking time to investigate it? Just do it fast and its over, so I'm still hopeful even though UPS 1800 number people are telling me its gone. They dont have proof so I'm crossing fingers, but it hasn't moved in 9 days

Wait... Are you saying you DECLARED it was a firearm when presenting for shipment??? THAT would mean that they accepted it KNOWING it was in violation of their shipping terms, and that sounds a lot like intentional/negligent theft of a firearm - maybe get local LE involved and I'd look carefully at exactly WHERE the tracking info goes "missing". Somehow I feel like there's a lot of "CYA" in play here, and they just want to blame the customer for their failure to refuse the shipment in the first place, and where exactly they somehow determined the contents of the shipment was a firearm. "Destroyed" feels like someone got a fancy new gat...

And what does the "gunsmith" say? You relied on his representations, he's the "expert", sure you "shoulda known better", but HE is the one who is supposed to know and comply with the laws, and should have advised you correctly as to how to do so!


I had a rifle (bull) barrel bust out of a USPS package of parts, once postal inspectors were invoked, we were able to track down where it happened, who found it and that it was sent to a warehouse worthy of that final scene w/Indiana Jones... didn't get the barrel back, but we sure tried!



EDIT: Sounds like it's all working out, YEAH! Gawernator hit the same points I was suggesting, and sounds like you were all over doing the needed things. Good call on the Airtag, I need to get a handful of those (do they make Android versions?!?).

Honestly, I don't think I'd be willing to send anything to that "'smith" after your nightmare, it's absolutely irresponsible to give out advice that is so WRONG that AI would be embarrassed for you.... nowadays one has to have two law degrees, an engineering degree, and a couple o' masters just to sort out the legal MESS that CA laws (and to a lesser degree, Federal) have created for the trying to be responsible and follow the laws citizen....

I'd be furious with the gunsmith, the UPS clerk that you told it was a gun and took it anyway, UPS in general for such cavalier handling of firearms (good they at least refunded you!)... and it goes to show that there are "good guys" at the ATF, even though we tend to paint them all with the same brush!

 

[11thfinger]

I can't say it for sure of course but it seems the most likely by far. Why else is an employee opening the package and also destroying an airtag? Seems more likely he got caught, and then the gun was somehow sent for destruction - assuming all of this is real. Plus, Oakland UPS? Yeah, theft hotspot for sure

Oakland.... yeah that's all I needed to hear.

 

[gorgothmog]

I sent off a $5000 dollar long gun via USPS using my own label for GunBroker. Insured it to top dollar. No problems, no regrets. USPS for long guns all day long.