PPT - How Much Can They Charge?

[Gryff]

While I think that the PPT law should’ve had an inflation rider (maybe following the CPI) - because they are now a clear money loser for the FFL

Who cares if it is a money loser? It's a regulatory requirement that is part of the cost of operating that kind of business. They knew that when they opened their doors.

 

[Boomhauer]

Who cares if it is a money loser? It's a regulatory requirement that is part of the cost of operating that kind of business. They knew that when they opened their doors.

Agreed they are an FFL and they knew what they signed up for. Unfortunately for gun shops they benefit 0% from the added tax and new gun sales have been down because of that. I feel that will close the doors on some LGS and that sucks but that doesn’t give them the right to pull charges out of their A**. Come to think of it I had this happen to me at Red Rifle in Carson. I was meeting up with a super old timer and this was his closest. For one dude charged 20 upfront for coming in on “non FFL days” the old timer paid that and said it was his fault he should have known, I said ok…just because it was his FFL. I bought two guns off him for a really good price and when I went to pay I was tacked on an extra 20 but it was seperate indicating storage fee. I wasn’t happy with it and had no plans to ever come back to the shop because it was very far for me but it never sat right with me. Got 20 from the old timer and 20 from me. Once again that’s RED RIFLE in CARSON. I like posts like this because it helps bring attention to this theft.

 

[paintballdad]

Agreed they are an FFL and they knew what they signed up for. Unfortunately for gun shops they benefit 0% from the added tax and new gun sales have been down because of that. I feel that will close the doors on some LGS and that sucks but that doesn’t give them the right to pull charges out of their A**. Come to think of it I had this happen to me at Red Rifle in Carson. I was meeting up with a super old timer and this was his closest. For one dude charged 20 upfront for coming in on “non FFL days” the old timer paid that and said it was his fault he should have known, I said ok…just because it was his FFL I bought two guns off him for a really good price and when I went to pay I was tacked on an extra 20 but it was seperate indicating storage fee. I wasn’t happy with it and had no plans to ever come back to the shop because it was very far for me but it never sat right with me. Got 20 from the old timer and 20 from me. Once again that’s RED RIFLE in CARSON. I like posts like this because it helps bring attention to this theft.

They lost more than what they gained from both of you that day, and that is what doesn't make sense. These types of FFLs are driving themsleves out of business.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

No, it's illegal but I learned there's basically no enforcement. I asked my CADOJ agent friend and he said you could make a complaint but nothing would happen most likely, unless there are a ton of reports.

I’ve heard of a store getting a call from DOJ and being told to only charge $10.

 

[DB>)>]

I've learned to call the FFL ahead of time, and I've been quoted various amounts up to $100 from some, some calling them "storage fees" or whatever, including some that swore to me (or at me?) that they could violate the CA Penal Code cited clearly and correctly above.

I suppose it's not too surprising, I've run into more than a few strange interpretations of the twisted laws of this state, YMMV.... sure, I'll buy a lock I don't neeed! SMH

Since these overcharges are a violation of STATE LAW, I've wondered how long before our imperious leaders (the ones that just released a 140 page manifesto on their long term plan to destroy gun rights in CA) decide to yank the licenses of these geniuses that seem to think it's OK to break the LAW...

We already have lost a LOT of smaller FFLs because the paperwork/regulatory burdens of maintaining a "LGS" in CA, those remaining shooting themselves in the foot literally by violating a clearly stated legally mandated charge are treading dangerous ground, IMO. It's insanity to paint a target on your back in a state as anti-gun as CA!

I won't even mention how few FFLs do ammo transfers... for the pittance they are allowed to charge, can't say as I blame them...

 

[Kalohe]

I've learned to call the FFL ahead of time, and I've been quoted various amounts up to $100 from some, some calling them "storage fees" or whatever, including some that swore to me (or at me?) that they could violate the CA Penal Code cited clearly and correctly above.

I suppose it's not too surprising, I've run into more than a few strange interpretations of the twisted laws of this state, YMMV.... sure, I'll buy a lock I don't neeed! SMH

Since these overcharges are a violation of STATE LAW, I've wondered how long before our imperious leaders (the ones that just released a 140 page manifesto on their long term plan to destroy gun rights in CA) decide to yank the licenses of these geniuses that seem to think it's OK to break the LAW...

We already have lost a LOT of smaller FFLs because the paperwork/regulatory burdens of maintaining a "LGS" in CA, those remaining shooting themselves in the foot literally by violating a clearly stated legally mandated charge are treading dangerous ground, IMO. It's insanity to paint a target on your back in a state as anti-gun as CA!

I won't even mention how few FFLs do ammo transfers... for the pittance they are allowed to charge, can't say as I blame them...

They handed me my gun, I said so you’re not going to have me put a lock on it? I had one in my pocket. He said no it’s in a case. The law states you half to have a secondary lock. I told them you just make up your own laws.

 

[Boomhauer]

They handed me my gun, I said so you’re not going to have me put a lock on it? I had one in my pocket. He said no it’s in a case. The law states you half to have a secondary lock. I told them you just make up your own laws.

I have so many dang locks that are brand new, sometimes I forget and I have to buy a lock whatever. Newest one I’ve heard and I’m not sure if they were kidding or not. I just recently bought 2 handguns on ppt. I showed up with a brand new lock in packaging and the seller was like you can have this one so you don’t have to buy another. Both legit handgun locks. I said here is all paper work and Id and here are two locks for the guns. Guy said were these bought in the last 30 days with receipts otherwise you will need to buy ones. I said umm ok…anyways we did the deal and was charge the standard 57.19 for guns paid and left with my lock. I’m going to bring two locks when I got to pick up and see if that’s ok I have never heard that 30 day bs before.

 

[Gawernator]

I've learned to call the FFL ahead of time, and I've been quoted various amounts up to $100 from some, some calling them "storage fees" or whatever, including some that swore to me (or at me?) that they could violate the CA Penal Code cited clearly and correctly above.

I suppose it's not too surprising, I've run into more than a few strange interpretations of the twisted laws of this state, YMMV.... sure, I'll buy a lock I don't neeed! SMH

Since these overcharges are a violation of STATE LAW, I've wondered how long before our imperious leaders (the ones that just released a 140 page manifesto on their long term plan to destroy gun rights in CA) decide to yank the licenses of these geniuses that seem to think it's OK to break the LAW...

We already have lost a LOT of smaller FFLs because the paperwork/regulatory burdens of maintaining a "LGS" in CA, those remaining shooting themselves in the foot literally by violating a clearly stated legally mandated charge are treading dangerous ground, IMO. It's insanity to paint a target on your back in a state as anti-gun as CA!

I won't even mention how few FFLs do ammo transfers... for the pittance they are allowed to charge, can't say as I blame them...

The state doesn’t care.

 

[Shellbackitup]

FFLs are the good guys here, without them our 2A rights are worthless. They’re on our team, why help the CA government hassle them?

Who’s side of this are you on?

You all can cuss me all you want, but I’m not doing anything that drives yet another FFL out of business..

Whose side are you on? Grifters who are illegally charging their customers?

*This* FFL is not a good guy here.

Businesses that engage in illegal and unethical behavior absolutely SHOULD be driven out of business.

They are not helping the cause, they are hurting it.

Of course I support my local FFL's, and in general, all FFL's. But a rotten apple spoils the barrel and needs to be removed ASAP.

 

[Hamburger Monster]

I have so many dang locks that are brand new, sometimes I forget and I have to buy a lock whatever. Newest one I’ve heard and I’m not sure if they were kidding or not. I just recently bought 2 handguns on ppt. I showed up with a brand new lock in packaging and the seller was like you can have this one so you don’t have to buy another. Both legit handgun locks. I said here is all paper work and Id and here are two locks for the guns. Guy said were these bought in the last 30 days with receipts otherwise you will need to buy ones. I said umm ok…anyways we did the deal and was charge the standard 57.19 for guns paid and left with my lock. I’m going to bring two locks when I got to pick up and see if that’s ok I have never heard that 30 day bs before.

From here: https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdfaqs

"Are there any exceptions to the Firearm Safety Device (FSD) requirement?

• Yes. The FSD requirement does not apply to the following:
  
  • Persons who can demonstrate the purchase of a Department of Justice-approved safety device in the 30 days prior to taking possession of the firearm by presenting the device to the firearms dealer and providing the firearms dealer with a receipt showing the purchase date and model name of the device."

 

[Gravel]

If you have to choose sides between supporting the CADOJ, or supporting your local gun store, is $40 all it takes to support the CADOJ and throw your LGS under the bus? $40 is enough to join team Newsom, Bonta, etc?

And why does the CADOJ determine what an independent business gets to charge for a service anyway? Shouldn’t that price be set by the LGS however they see fit? It’s fundamentally *not* a government function to set prices for services. That’s what the free market does.


I’ve stated my thoughts here, I’ll take a step back..

 

[Boomhauer]

From here: https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fsdfaqs

"Are there any exceptions to the Firearm Safety Device (FSD) requirement?

• Yes. The FSD requirement does not apply to the following:
  
  • Persons who can demonstrate the purchase of a Department of Justice-approved safety device in the 30 days prior to taking possession of the firearm by presenting the device to the firearms dealer and providing the firearms dealer with a receipt showing the purchase date and model name of the device."

Tad bit confusing, reading the excerpt right before this one. So if the lock would have been in the case it would have been fine? Because firearms a lot of times come with their own locks brand new in case. Would those then be ok? I’ve just never heard this before ever. They ask you got a lock I either reply yes here you go or no and have to buy one.

 

[DangItBobby]

Interesting reading all the replies here because recently I did a ppt in OC and I thought it was weird that they charged me an $25 extra for a ppt service fee.

 

[Gawernator]

If you have to choose sides between supporting the CADOJ, or supporting your local gun store, is $40 all it takes to support the CADOJ and throw your LGS under the bus? $40 is enough to join team Newsom, Bonta, etc?

And why does the CADOJ determine what an independent business gets to charge for a service anyway? Shouldn’t that price be set by the LGS however they see fit? It’s fundamentally *not* a government function to set prices for services. That’s what the free market does.


I’ve stated my thoughts here, I’ll take a step back..

Interesting reading all the replies here because recently I did a ppt in OC and I thought it was weird that they charged me an $25 extra for a ppt service fee.

Yep it’s illegal. They cannot charge more than $10 or any extra fees. But like said there’s really no enforcement but you can try reporting them to CADOJ if you want. I just don’t do PPT at those places

 

[TravelinMan]

I called them the other day to question them about it. The guy said I got lucky usually they charge $100.

And if you show up on a even unluckier day they charge you $150...

WTS, it's pretty typical that a storefront LGS will charge a transfer premium for firearms not bought from them (ie online purchase) but bending you over for a PPT is just bad business IMO. I've only done one PPT in the Bay Area at Manzano and those guys were great. Def would go back there if I was looking to buy a new piece. For online purchases, Friendly FFL is my go to...

 

[Hamburger Monster]

Tad bit confusing, reading the excerpt right before this one. So if the lock would have been in the case it would have been fine? Because firearms a lot of times come with their own locks brand new in case. Would those then be ok? I’ve just never heard this before ever. They ask you got a lock I either reply yes here you go or no and have to buy one.

Yes. The lock that comes with the firearm is suitable to satisfy the requirements. I think it's mostly a California thing where most firearms now come with locks. I remember having to purchase them separately. The last few I didn't need to

 

[Gryff]

If you have to choose sides between supporting the CADOJ, or supporting your local gun store, is $40 all it takes to support the CADOJ and throw your LGS under the bus? $40 is enough to join team Newsom, Bonta, etc?

I will choose to support the LGS that follows the law. They are out there. It is good to know who does, and who doesn't. If you choose to abuse the law for your benefit, and at the cost of your customers, then you deserve the negative blowback that should come with that.

Additionally, the more that we let the bad ones slide by, the more others will think it's ok to jump on the band wagon. Hammering the ones that don't comply with the law reminds others to play nice.

 

[p--and--p]

Totally wack. I have done 100 ppts and the worst I've seen is where I get charged an extra $6 for a lock because my lock wasn't purchased within the last 30 days... Its some loophole a few places exploit- but you know- with the time I'm not worried about it. Also, they have never given me the lock I buy LOL

But yes in over 100 PPT's, I have never been charged more then the $47 and maybe that $6 lock fee

 

[Shellbackitup]

I will choose to support the LGS that follows the law. They are out there. It is good to know who does, and who doesn't. If you choose to abuse the law for your benefit, and at the cost of your customers, then you deserve the negative blowback that should come with that.

Additionally, the more that we let the bad ones slide by, the more others will think it's ok to jump on the band wagon. Hammering the ones that don't comply with the law reminds others to play nice.

Very well said. 100% agree

 

[30tokens]

No, it's illegal but I learned there's basically no enforcement. I asked my CADOJ agent friend and he said you could make a complaint but nothing would happen most likely, unless there are a ton of reports.

Because unforced it’s becoming a trend. Also, shops are betting on people keep quiet and trying to avoid retaliation at 10-days. I’ve seen shops adding $30-$50 constantly.

That’s why personally staying with reputable ffls (Route 66, 2A, Riflenetics, etc.) there are quite a list of solid ones!