PPT where the buyer gets denied.

[PAGANSAINT71]

Get your gun back and refund him the 75

I feel like Im already going out of my way for him. Once I sold it to him, signed the release and the shop took possession of it,by all rights I should be out of the equation. I mean whatever happens after that should have nothing to do with me. If I do nothing than the gun he purchased which the store is in possession of won't be released and will eventually be destroyed and he would be out in total, or I pick it up and offer to help. Im not obligated to do anything. I just trying to make him as close to whole as possible.

 

[PAGANSAINT71]

I honestly just don’t like this situation you described. Grab your gun. Give him back what you think is fair for your time and gas and move on.

I took that cash and purchased something else or else I would.

 

[Boomhauer]

I feel like Im already going out of my way for him. Once I sold it to him, signed the release and the shop took possession of it,by all rights I should be out of the equation. I mean whatever happens after that should have nothing to do with me. If I do nothing than the gun he purchased which the store is in possession of won't be released and will eventually be destroyed and he would be out in total, or I pick it up and offer to help. Im not obligated to do anything. I just trying to make him as close to whole as possible.

No sir, that gun is yours. If no transfer was made

I took that cash and purchased something else or else I would.

So if his dros got kicked back, that gun is still legally yours. They can’t sell it or do anything with it. That’s your gun. I would go to the FFL say that im here to pick up my gun that got kicked back from a dros. They have to call the doj saying what happened and then it is released back to you.

 

[dvoncock]

No sir, that gun is yours. If no transfer was made

So if his dros got kicked back, that gun is still legally yours. They can’t sell it or do anything with it. That’s your gun. I would go to the FFL say that im here to pick up my gun that got kicked back from a dros. They have to call the doj saying what happened and then it is released back to you.

Contract law is way outside my wheelhouse and I’m grasping at stuff I vaguely remember from law school, which was long ago. In other words, take this with a grain of salt.

I think there are there are two things going on in parallel here.

On the one hand, if the buyer failed DROS, the gun is still associated to the OP in the AFS. On the other hand, the buyer paid, so performed under the (presumably) oral contract. That means the buyer probably has some claim to the property. If the OP takes possession, then he probably failed to perform under the contract, and the buyer would probably be legally entitled to a refund.

As the OP said, “not my circus, not my monkey” is the right attitude. The safest option is to let the FFL do whatever they do with unclaimed firearms and move on.

 

[Gawernator]

I feel like Im already going out of my way for him. Once I sold it to him, signed the release and the shop took possession of it,by all rights I should be out of the equation. I mean whatever happens after that should have nothing to do with me. If I do nothing than the gun he purchased which the store is in possession of won't be released and will eventually be destroyed and he would be out in total, or I pick it up and offer to help. Im not obligated to do anything. I just trying to make him as close to whole as possible.

Why do you keep saying this? it's nonsense. The gun is still in your name, it wasn't transferred. You have to go back to the store and start the process to pick it up.

$47.19 DROS Fee - If the buyer in the PPT is denied, the firearm will be returned to the seller (pending a DOJ background cost of $47.19).

Angry Lion Firearms

private party transfer california dros ffl license

angrylionfirearms.com

 

[Gawernator]

Contract law is way outside my wheelhouse and I’m grasping at stuff I vaguely remember from law school, which was long ago. In other words, take this with a grain of salt.

I think there are there are two things going on in parallel here.

On the one hand, if the buyer failed DROS, the gun is still associated to the OP in the AFS. On the other hand, the buyer paid, so performed under the (presumably) oral contract. That means the buyer probably has some claim to the property. If the OP takes possession, then he probably failed to perform under the contract, and the buyer would probably be legally entitled to a refund.

As the OP said, “not my circus, not my monkey” is the right attitude. The safest option is to let the FFL do whatever they do with unclaimed firearms and move on.

He is supposed to take the gun back if a PPT is denied.

 

[dvoncock]

He's not clearing anything up. Either he has a felony, he has an active restraining order or a disqualifying misdemeanor. Right?

I’m inclined to agree because I’m cynical. That said, I have seen inaccurate AFS entries before. So it’s possible DOJ got a false positive running the buyer. CLETS, which pulls warrant and restraining order info into the database used for DROS, is notoriously inaccurate. Another common issue is when a buyer’s given address doesn’t match the address given for their last firearm purchase. So, I guess, it’s possible the buyer could clear this up.

 

[dvoncock]

He is supposed to take the gun back if a PPT is denied.

Is that written into statute somewhere? I thought the seller signs a release of property during the PPT process.

 

[Boomhauer]

Contract law is way outside my wheelhouse and I’m grasping at stuff I vaguely remember from law school, which was long ago. In other words, take this with a grain of salt.

I think there are there are two things going on in parallel here.

On the one hand, if the buyer failed DROS, the gun is still associated to the OP in the AFS. On the other hand, the buyer paid, so performed under the (presumably) oral contract. That means the buyer probably has some claim to the property. If the OP takes possession, then he probably failed to perform under the contract, and the buyer would probably be legally entitled to a refund.

As the OP said, “not my circus, not my monkey” is the right attitude. The safest option is to let the FFL do whatever they do with unclaimed firearms and move on.

I’m in this situation but the guy was just at his limit of 3 in 30. The FFL said ball is in your court if you would like your firearm back we will call doj and explain situation and release it to you. I however am opting to leave it with FFL and meet up with guy to re dros it as we did have a deal. As it stands the buyer will not be able to re dros, if OP does not claim his gone it will sit in the FFL forever, they can not do anything with it as they do not own it, they can’t sell it, and they can’t dispose of it.

 

[Boomhauer]

Is that written into statute somewhere? I thought the seller signs a release of property during the PPT process.

But once the dros kicks back on the buyer the firearm is void of the dros transfer and kicks back to the original owner as the FFL is only doing the transfer. They do not have any other business with the firearm.

 

[Gawernator]

Is that written into statute somewhere? I thought the seller signs a release of property during the PPT process.

According to this FFL and reddit https://angrylionfirearms.com/dros-information

 

[9Cal_OC]

He's not clearing anything up. Either he has a felony, he has an active restraining order or a disqualifying misdemeanor. Right?

You’re giving the DOJ too much credit.. they do delay people sometimes for no reason

Why do you keep saying this? it's nonsense. The gun is still in your name, it wasn't transferred. You have to go back to the store and start the process to pick it up.

$47.19 DROS Fee - If the buyer in the PPT is denied, the firearm will be returned to the seller (pending a DOJ background cost of $47.19).

Angry Lion Firearms

private party transfer california dros ffl license

angrylionfirearms.com

Why would the seller pay to re-DROS his own gun back of the transfer couldn’t take place because of a denial?

If one is denied, then the original owner is still the owner.

 

[Gawernator]

You’re giving the DOJ too much credit.. they do delay people sometimes for no reason


Why would the seller pay to re-DROS his own gun back of the transfer couldn’t take place because of a denial?

If one is denied, then the original owner is still the owner.

That's what that FFL says, I didn't write their site.

"
Not necessarily. In California, if the buyer’s PPT DROS is denied, the gun stays with the FFL and the dealer is supposed to return it to you, the seller, if you’re still legally eligible to possess it. Penal Code § 28050(d) expressly says that if the dealer cannot legally deliver to the buyer, the dealer shall return the firearm to the seller.


The part I didn’t realize until checking DOJ’s current procedure is that a failed PPT does not automatically require a brand-new DROS back to you. For a buyer whose DROS is Denied, Rejected, or Undetermined, DOJ allows the dealer to request a seller NICS Transaction Number (NTN) tied to that transaction and use it to return the gun to you.


However, DOJ specifically says that if the original DROS has been canceled or the applicable 30-day/24-hour delivery-return window has expired, that seller NTN is no longer valid. At that point, yes: the dealer has to run a “Return to Owner” DROS to give your own gun back to you.


There is also a background check on you in the process. DOJ states that in a PPT, the seller must meet the normal firearm eligibility requirements if the purchaser is denied.


So practically:


Buyer denied → FFL contacts you → if the failed-PPT return procedure is still live and you pass → gun comes back to you without starting an ordinary new purchase DROS.


If too much time has passed / transaction was canceled → Return-to-Owner DROS back to you.


And there's an ugly edge case: if you subsequently became prohibited and the dealer therefore cannot legally return it, since July 1, 2024 you can have the FFL hold it for up to 45 days while you designate another eligible person to receive it. Otherwise it ultimately goes to law enforcement for disposition.


So if you're selling something expensive via PPT, a buyer denial is mostly a pain in the ass, not a situation where the gun somehow becomes the FFL's property."

 

[Boomhauer]

Met up with the guy that was over his three in 30 and we were able to re-dros. He brought me 300 rounds of 762×39 for my trouble so I guess in my case doing the right thing paid off with great karma.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I dont want to have to come out of pocket since I sold it and purchased something else.I offered to pick it up and hold it till he clears up. I offered to put it on consignment and give him the proceeds. I offered to pick it up and relist it and then after selling venmo the money.Or do nothing and let the store send it to get destroyed. The whole not my circus not my monkey approach. He agreed I will pick it up and let him figure out what happened. It will sit in my safe until he figures it out.

I do like the resell and send him the proceeds. I’d also tell him that you would hold it for say 90 days and if he can’t get things sorted by then you will resell it and give him the proceeds. Puts a time limit on it so you can move on. Unless this was his first gun purchase, he should know if he could/should pass DROS process. If he has passed in the past and not done something that woudl get him disqualified since then, it is likely an administrative thing should be something he can resolve.

 

[RustyIron]

I took that cash and purchased something else or else I would.

Unless you’re a member of the Sisters of Mercy or this clown’s mom, there’s no reason to go to extreme lengths to hold his hand and solve his problems for him. If he doesn’t take care of business, you NEED to get the gun back for yourself. Letting the gun be destroyed is an affront to all that is holy. If you feel uncomfortable about the situation, sell it again and donate half the proceeds to poor kids or a school. Use the other half to take your wife out to dinner and leave a generous tip.

 

[mrbieler]

If you have to return to the shop for any of this beyond picking back up your property, I would expect some compensation, but unless the deal felt hinky I wouldn't be punative.

Without something in writing, failure to return the funds could send you to civil/small claims court. The store and DOJ have nothing to do with this. The gun is still yours until the transfer goes through. Keeping the gun and the money doesn't seem like solid civil footing but I am not a lawyer.

As for the deal, in all the years I've done them they have all been parking inspections and money handovers and we walk in together. Never done an in store inspection or payment/payout.

 

[packy14]

I recently sold a firearm to someone and we did a PPT at an agreed upon gun shop. In the course of the transaction I said that the sale was final and there would be no refunds because I intended to spend the money and I did. I just received a message from the buyer stating that their DROS was denied and they would like a refund. I told him to figure it out with the DOJ. He then responded that if it can't be resolved with the DOJ his brother would purchase it. I'm fine with that but it would require me to drive approximately 45min to an hour each way and then spend however long an amount of time in the store. What is the standard etiquette in a situation like this? Update after reaching out on here my gut feeling was confirmed and will not be transferring it to a brother or friend of his. We agreed I will pick it up and put it in my safe while he straightens it out. If it can't be corrected I will place it up for sale again and give him the proceeds when it sells.

Charge him any dros fees you incur plus the greater of 100$ or 10% of the firearm value.

 

[2A in the CA]

I can verify one thing for you. When I do these as the FFL, I have no idea at all if you are approved or not for purchase. Once everything is entered I do not know till the 10days is up, and that 10 days is to the exact second of what time it was submitted 10 days ago. Now, if someone has something in their back ground that gets them denied, the DOJ may reach out to me, but that has not happen yet. We do not know at the time of entry if the buyer is approved or not.

 

[Boomhauer]

I can verify one thing for you. When I do these as the FFL, I have no idea at all if you are approved or not for purchase. Once everything is entered I do not know till the 10days is up, and that 10 days is to the exact second of what time it was submitted 10 days ago. Now, if someone has something in their back ground that gets them denied, the DOJ may reach out to me, but that has not happen yet. We do not know at the time of entry if the buyer is approved or not.

Well that is a lie…dang ol lie man