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Purchasing from out of state friend
- Thread starter Magikarp4Sale
- Start date
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- 563
You have ZERO clue..
RickD427
Member
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- 36
Negative. No second effort required.
Here's a quote of your posting that I responded to: "I can go to any gun show, pawn store, gun store and buy a firearm." There ain't nothing in your posting about no pistols.
The original posting, which set the context of this thread was about a Springfield Echelon, which is most certainly a pistol.
angryasian
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I only listen to smartasian, not angryasian.
It was a nickname I picked up in the military. I’m sure you had one too
angryasian
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It’s surprising to get this kind of thing on a firearm forum. The op should go to his ffl and ask
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That I did my friend, I was called the Hawk (Radman was another) which was a play on my last name but also in reference of me seeing things along with my Sharpshooter Badges in both rifle and pistol, I dont think I would qualify today lol.
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Just to put a bow on all this -
The laws in California regarding firearms are complicated and don't always follow what those who use them would consider logic.
This makes lots of people make assumptions, mostly worng, when trying to figure out what they can do and what the must do and most importantly, who to do it with.
Even FFLs are not sure and lots of them ( I'm talking about you Turner's Outdoorsman ) decline to do things that are legal because of a perceived risk.
Because so many of us believe many of these laws are directly against the 2A of the US Constitution, we individually decide to ignore them. A great example is CCW. Lots of people carry a CW without a license every day. Lots.
If you ( and I'm not speaking to anyone directly ) are afraid of the government then you should stay well inside the lines and keep your head down. If you want to do your best Rosa Parks impersonation then who am I to say you shouldn't ?
The laws in California regarding firearms are complicated and don't always follow what those who use them would consider logic.
This makes lots of people make assumptions, mostly worng, when trying to figure out what they can do and what the must do and most importantly, who to do it with.
Even FFLs are not sure and lots of them ( I'm talking about you Turner's Outdoorsman ) decline to do things that are legal because of a perceived risk.
Because so many of us believe many of these laws are directly against the 2A of the US Constitution, we individually decide to ignore them. A great example is CCW. Lots of people carry a CW without a license every day. Lots.
If you ( and I'm not speaking to anyone directly ) are afraid of the government then you should stay well inside the lines and keep your head down. If you want to do your best Rosa Parks impersonation then who am I to say you shouldn't ?
angryasian
Member
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I’d tell you the other nicknames I picked up but there’s so many. You’d think I was the only Asian in the military…. And I’m only half!
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- 563
You are correct, I just never desired anything pistol wise I could not purchase here.
As far as I know if one has an off roster firearm that is not a class 3 legally purchased you can register it in this state or am I wrong?
My point was a follow up from one who stated you can you can get an I.D. from another state and bring it here legally, that was all.
you can register any California legal firearm, they don’t check if it’s been legally obtained because they literally don’t have the ability to know or not unless they do an expensive investigation. This is because there are a number of legal ways to obtain the firearm that they would have to conclusively prove that you didn’t use and thus may be impossible since even CFARS records are often missing or incomplete
The only way it ever becomes an issue is if you get caught using the gun in a crime.
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And by then you will have bigger issues.
I would say if you are doing illegal things a lot, that might also attract attention. Do not become a big fish. Or do. Not my problem.
If I somehow ended up with a gun I couldn't explain, I personally would do the pawn shop trick (pawn and then DROS back to me) to get it registered in my name. I'd at least avoid the "unregistered gun" charge lol. I don't think they go back through the gun's entire provenance to identify who transferred when.
RickD427
Member
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- 36
There is no problem doing a "Voluntary Registration" of a legally configured, but "off-roster" firearm. The DOJ does not do an review of the ancestry of the firearm. That action will create a record in the state's "Automated Firearm's System" associating that firearm to the person registering it.
Except for Assault Weapons, .50 BMG Rifles, and NFA items, there is no crime resulting from the unregistered possession of a firearm.
The disadvantage of a "Voluntary Registration" is that the government has knowledge of the weapon(s) that you possess. There are two advantages resulting from such registration: 1) If your weapon is lost or stolen, it can be traced back to you, and 2) If there is any potential for you to be arrested for the illegal CCW, or illegal loaded carry, of the weapon, a first-time, unaggravated offense is a misdemeanor if the weapon is registered to you and a felony if it is not.
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I have heard of problems with voluntary registration. The DOJ will actually contact you and ask why you are doing voluntary registrations. I have also heard of them rejecting intrafamilial transfers as well, so why not reject a voluntary registration and then show up to take the firearm with a warrant? In general, you would have had to broken some law to do a voluntary registration. This would be one where you do too many voluntary registrations, they might show up to find out why. I would personally never do a voluntary registration and do not recommend it for anyone.
Has anyone ever had any government agency ask any questions about PPTing firearms? I have never heard of such a thing.
RickD427
Member
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Do you actually have any personal knowledge of DOJ "Rejecting" a Voluntary Registration, or of any nice DOJ agents contacting a person having made such a registration?
Without having more evidence of a criminal violation, it would be legally impossible to "show up and take the firearm with a warrant" because they "Rejected" a Voluntary Registration. A warrant requires "Probable Cause" that a crime has been committed, and that the information supporting that "Probable Cause" be timely. With the exceptions noted in my previous post, no law is violated simply by the possession of an unregistered firearm. If the nice DOJ agents have enough evidence of a criminal violation, then they they don't need a "Rejected" attempt at Voluntary Registration to get a warrant.
There are a great number of firearms in circulation that are subject to Voluntary Registration and without some law being broken. I believe that your assertion to the contrary is unfounded. In general, all firearms acquired from an FFL prior the AFSS entry from dealer records (from memory that was in the 60's for handguns and the 80's for long guns, and noting that California did not enter dealer record sales at the onset of the record requirement), firearms personally imported into the state prior to the dates in PC27585 (2015 for all firearms in the current version, an earlier version had an earlier date for handguns), firearms purchased from private parties prior to the requirement to use an FFL (again, from memory, that date was back in the 80's). In sum, there's a ton of older firearms that are subject to Voluntary Registration without any law being broken.
Again, the only real advantage that I see to a Voluntary Registration is the misdemeanor instead of felony penalty if one gets arrested for the illegal CCW, or loaded carry, of the firearm.
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Consistency seems off a bit. So, is there the potential for raid or not? Or would they only raid if someone found a way to lawfully register a firearm?
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RickD427 I believe part of the issue here is you are thinking about older guns that do not lawfully require registration and I am talking about guns that must be registered in order to go on a CCW or be found in your possession. So someone tries to register their did not exist in 1991, newer handgun via voluntary registration. Please tell me when the DOJ calls them and asks why they are trying to voluntarily register this handgun make and model that did not exist in 1991 what they should say. I mean obviously they should state they are not going to say anything without a lawyer present. So the DOJ contacts ATF and does a trace and sees somehow the firearm went from a 4473 in Ohio to suddenly being voluntarily registered in California. The 4473 is to someone who is not a clear family member, so they get a warrant and show up looking for that handgun because they have probable cause to believe it violated both Federal law in traveling across state lines without going through an FFL and illegal importation of an unsafe handgun (if that is a law, I would have to double check that one).
I agree with you that there are handguns out there that do not require registration, but that is not the topic. Only old timers lawfully own those firearms and they are not registering a damned thing unless they want it on their CCW, but the age of the firearm make and model would indicate the DOJ does not need to ask questions. Now if they did a intrafamilial transfer, then no questions would be asked because it makes sense that any age firearm might be handed down from a relative.
So on modern handguns that did not exist prior to 1991 or 2014 for long guns, what is the legal reason to do a voluntary registration? You literally would be incriminating yourself trying to voluntarily register it because there was no legal way for you to come in possession of the firearm without having gone through an FFL. I do not recommend anyone do so.
PPTs, pawn returns, and intrafamilial transfers? 100% plausible and done all the time all across the state. You would be one tree in the forest. Voluntary registration you are one tree in a largely empty field. Do not stand out. Or do and good luck. It won't be my problem.
I agree with you that there are handguns out there that do not require registration, but that is not the topic. Only old timers lawfully own those firearms and they are not registering a damned thing unless they want it on their CCW, but the age of the firearm make and model would indicate the DOJ does not need to ask questions. Now if they did a intrafamilial transfer, then no questions would be asked because it makes sense that any age firearm might be handed down from a relative.
So on modern handguns that did not exist prior to 1991 or 2014 for long guns, what is the legal reason to do a voluntary registration? You literally would be incriminating yourself trying to voluntarily register it because there was no legal way for you to come in possession of the firearm without having gone through an FFL. I do not recommend anyone do so.
PPTs, pawn returns, and intrafamilial transfers? 100% plausible and done all the time all across the state. You would be one tree in the forest. Voluntary registration you are one tree in a largely empty field. Do not stand out. Or do and good luck. It won't be my problem.