Legal Question about buying off roster gun from private party transfer

[Librarian]

People won’t tell you this cause they don’t know but if it’s an off roster gun make sure it’s registered in CA first.

I promise you later on down the line you could run into some issues. Since it wasn’t properly imported from FFL to FFL out of state. Seen it happen couple times since I worked at gun store.

Anyone want to argue with me please feel free to message me so I can explain it.

Oh, no, let's do it on the forum.

CA law, PC 27560, says (in relevant part)

27560. ​

(a) (1) Within 60 days after bringing any firearm into this state, a personal firearm importer shall do one of the following:
(A) Submit to the Department of Justice, in a form and manner prescribed by the department, a report including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question. The department may request photographs of the firearm to determine if the firearm is a generally prohibited weapon, assault weapon, or machinegun, or is otherwise prohibited. A person shall not furnish a fictitious name or address, knowingly furnish any incorrect information, or knowingly omit any information required to be provided in this report.

(B) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of Section 27545 or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from Section 27545.

(C) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(D) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

So, what bad behavior by CA DOJ would you like to reveal?

EDIT: Just noticed this bit: "The department may request photographs of the firearm to determine if the firearm is a generally prohibited weapon, assault weapon, or machinegun, or is otherwise prohibited." This is an artifact of AB 3064 and became effective Jan 1, 2025

Similar change was made to PC 27875 (intrafamilial transfer), adding "(e) The department may request photographs of the firearm to determine if the firearm is a generally prohibited weapon, assault weapon, or machinegun, or is otherwise prohibited."

 

[vplaza96]

People won’t tell you this cause they don’t know but if it’s an off roster gun make sure it’s registered in CA first.

I promise you later on down the line you could run into some issues. Since it wasn’t properly imported from FFL to FFL out of state. Seen it happen couple times since I worked at gun store.

Anyone want to argue with me please feel free to message me so I can explain it.

I'm curious, if someone is selling an off roster gun and it is not registered in CA first, it won't pass the PPT process, correct? Or are you saying an off roster gun not registered in CA can pass the PPT process but then later on, the new owner will run into issues?

How do you check if an off roster gun you're looking at is registered in CA?

 

[Librarian]

How do you check if an off roster gun you're looking at is registered in CA?

'You', the individual gun buyer/owner cannot. Nor can an FFL. A CCW issuing agency can inquire and determine yes/no on that. (If you have any guns attributed to you in the Automated Firearms System, you can query DOJ, on paper, notarized, to get a list of what they have for you. https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/media/bof-053.pdf)

'Registered' is not a CA-required attribute for guns in 2025. The year is yet young ...

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

I'm curious, if someone is selling an off roster gun and it is not registered in CA first, it won't pass the PPT process, correct? Or are you saying an off roster gun not registered in CA can pass the PPT process but then later on, the new owner will run into issues?

How do you check if an off roster gun you're looking at is registered in CA?

Every CA record goes through a dros which is called a dealer record of sale while other states just do a NICS. Which is normal background check.

For example I have paperwork of all my firearms that are registered here in Cali.

 

[Thomasvanle86]

Oh, no, let's do it on the forum.

CA law, PC 27560, says (in relevant part)



So, what bad behavior by CA DOJ would you like to reveal?

EDIT: Just noticed this bit: "The department may request photographs of the firearm to determine if the firearm is a generally prohibited weapon, assault weapon, or machinegun, or is otherwise prohibited." This is an artifact of AB 3064 and became effective Jan 1, 2025

Similar change was made to PC 27875 (intrafamilial transfer), adding "(e) The department may request photographs of the firearm to determine if the firearm is a generally prohibited weapon, assault weapon, or machinegun, or is otherwise prohibited."

So librarian: based off PC 27560 (if you are the new resident/seller) you can sell the off roster (firearm) as long as you meet 27545 to a CA Resident? Just confirming. I thought the same...

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

So librarian: based off PC 27560 (if you are the new resident/seller) you can sell the off roster (firearm) as long as you meet 27545 to a CA Resident? Just confirming. I thought the same...

So new resident form and people having dual state ID to profit are two different things. One min. Typing up paragraph.

 

[vplaza96]

Every CA record goes through a dros which is called a dealer record of sale while other states just do a NICS. Which is normal background check.

For example I have paperwork of all my firearms that are registered here in Cali.

Thanks, so your original post said this:

People won’t tell you this cause they don’t know but if it’s an off roster gun make sure it’s registered in CA first.

I promise you later on down the line you could run into some issues. Since it wasn’t properly imported from FFL to FFL out of state. Seen it happen couple times since I worked at gun store.

Are you saying to make sure the off roster gun is registered in CA first BEFORE you go to the FFL to do the PPT? If so, how does a private buyer do that other than asking for the paperwork (which I suppose many people may not know if it is real or fake)?

From your recent reply, it sounds like the DROS will find this out during the PPT process. Or am I misunderstanding something because your second statement in the original post made it sound like it would be possible for an off roster gun to make it past the PPT process and therefore, the new owner could have issues down the line?

Apologies for missing the obvious if it's there but I bought an off roster pistol and I did NOT check if it was registered in CA before the PPT.

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

Oh, no, let's do it on the forum.

CA law, PC 27560, says (in relevant part)



So, what bad behavior by CA DOJ would you like to reveal?

EDIT: Just noticed this bit: "The department may request photographs of the firearm to determine if the firearm is a generally prohibited weapon, assault weapon, or machinegun, or is otherwise prohibited." This is an artifact of AB 3064 and became effective Jan 1, 2025

Similar change was made to PC 27875 (intrafamilial transfer), adding "(e) The department may request photographs of the firearm to determine if the firearm is a generally prohibited weapon, assault weapon, or machinegun, or is otherwise prohibited."

Not sure if you knew but a lot of people that buy guns and drive them into state lines run a potential felony charge down the line. I used to work for a gun store and proper way to bring your property from out of state you need to send it from FFL TO FFL but a lot of gun stores won’t do that cause they don’t know how to accept peoples (property) transfers from out of state.

You need to ship it from out of state I get charged $125, so they take a copy of your out of state ID and then ship it to your FFL of choice in CA, another $125 for me, then once it gets there they match my info and run a Dros here $50 and I have to wait 10 days before it goes home even though it’s my property.

A lot of people just drive them across state lines and do PPTs like that and sell them which, it’s perfectly legal on the Buyer/Seller eyes from DOJ because they mainly care who the firearm is going to, but let’s say if the buyer uses that firearm in a self defense situation or even gets that firearm taken away, when they see the history of the gun and how it got into CA and there being no paperwork of bringing it correctly; the buyer could and I’ve seen it happen where they get charged with a felony for bringing in a firearm into the state illegally, also known as a “importer of firearms without proper paperwork “FFL”.

That’s why a lot of these people buying guns in Arizona or Nevada and driving them across state lines to sell them could potentially get caught down the line. It’s happened to two regular customers of ours since I work for a firearm store.

New Resident form is different so let’s say if person lived in AZ and bought so many guns out there (pistols) since that’s what we are talking about, they’ll bring them over here but have to pin their “high cap mags” or discard them and that’s perfectly legal to do since you are moving into CA.

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

I'm curious, if someone is selling an off roster gun and it is not registered in CA first, it won't pass the PPT process, correct? Or are you saying an off roster gun not registered in CA can pass the PPT process but then later on, the new owner will run into issues?

How do you check if an off roster gun you're looking at is registered in CA?

Correct, it’ll still pass but potentially run into issues. I submitted response to it.

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

Thanks, so your original post said this:

People won’t tell you this cause they don’t know but if it’s an off roster gun make sure it’s registered in CA first.

I promise you later on down the line you could run into some issues. Since it wasn’t properly imported from FFL to FFL out of state. Seen it happen couple times since I worked at gun store.

Are you saying to make sure the off roster gun is registered in CA first BEFORE you go to the FFL to do the PPT? If so, how does a private buyer do that other than asking for the paperwork (which I suppose many people may not know if it is real or fake)?

From your recent reply, it sounds like the DROS will find this out during the PPT process. Or am I misunderstanding something because your second statement in the original post made it sound like it would be possible for an off roster gun to make it past the PPT process and therefore, the new owner could have issues down the line?

Apologies for missing the obvious if it's there but I bought an off roster pistol and I did NOT check if it was registered in CA before the PPT.

It’ll still pass the process but I try to tell people to cover their ass especially because we live in CA. You’re more than welcome to shoot me a text at
951-439-1321. Just keep it professional please.

 

[vplaza96]

Correct, it’ll still pass but potentially run into issues. I submitted response to it.

Well, that's depressing that it can pass PPT if it isn't registered in CA. And the buyer has no real way to confirm before doing the deal.

 

[DJD100]

Please don't solicit sales in the forums... That's against the rules

Sorry, won't happen again.

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

Well, that's depressing that it can pass PPT if it isn't registered in CA. And the buyer has no real way to confirm before doing the deal.

That’s why when people have dual IDs and buy guns out of state and bring them back and sell them for profit, those are the ones who are getting rich, normally what they don’t know also is us as employees of gun stores if a person does more than 5PPTs we have to report it and if it’s law enforcement doing it we contact their chief cause believe it or not a lot of people who buy off rosters and sell them are law enforcement as well.

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

Sorry, won't happen again.

Sorry as well.

 

[vplaza96]

It’ll still pass the process but I try to tell people to cover their ass especially because we live in CA. You’re more than welcome to shoot me a text at
951-439-1321. Just keep it professional please.

Appreciate the info. I guess the real question is how does a potential buyer do the CYA if they don't have a way to confirm before the purchase that the gun is registered in CA? If the PPT will allow a non-registered gun to be transferred, what other tool does a buyer have to NOT get into trouble BEFORE they buy the gun?

 

[DJD100]

Well, that's depressing that it can pass PPT if it isn't registered in CA. And the buyer has no real way to confirm before doing the deal.

Wow, and then the buyer who has no way to initially check on the history of the off-roster item they're purchasing PPT via a FFL, can possibly get nailed with a felony going forward?

Am I understanding this right?

If this is the case, maybe the only way to actually safely purchase an off-roster piece is from an exempt LEO, though do exempt people have to register their off-roster purchases in CA at purchase time?

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

Wow, and then the buyer who has no way to initially check on the history of the off-roster item they're purchasing PPT via a FFL, can possibly get nailed with a felony going forward?

Am I understanding this right?

If this is the case, maybe the only way to actually safely purchase an off-roster piece is from an exempt LEO, though do exempt people have to register their off-roster purchases in CA at purchase time?

Correct, I hate to break it to you and I’m not saying all LEO do but a lot of the People who benefiting to make money are law enforcement. They’ll buy Off Rosters and flip them for profit because they can. And they get them even cheaper cause they are LEO. That’s why as I stated in another reply us as workers for a firearm store if we see a law enforcement doing so many PPTs we need to contact their department/chief and inform them of their doing.

 

[DJD100]

Correct, I hate to break it to you and I’m not saying all LEO do but a lot of the People who benefiting to make money are law enforcement. They’ll buy Off Rosters and flip them for profit because they can. And they get them even cheaper cause they are LEO. That’s why as I stated in another reply us as workers for a firearm store if we see a law enforcement doing so many PPTs we need to contact their department/chief and inform them of their doing.

I guess my question is does a CA Type 1 LEO have to register an off-roster item or part when they receive it from out-0of state or where ever? In other words, if I pay the off-roster LEO prices, am I assured that what I'm purchasing has previously been registered in CA (seeing there's no way for me to check)?

I don't mind paying a premium if that's my only avenue etc, but I want everything above board so I'm not liable for someone else's importation issues down the road!

What was the outcome for anyone you might've heard of being charged for someone else's importation "crime"?

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

I guess my question is does a CA Type 1 LEO have to register an off-roster item or part when they receive it from out-0of state or where ever? In other words, if I pay the off-roster LEO prices, am I assured that what I'm purchasing has previously been registered in CA (seeing there's no way for me to check)?

I don't mind paying a premium if that's my only avenue etc, but I want everything above board so I'm not liable for someone else's importation issues down the road!

What was the outcome for anyone you might've heard of being charged for someone else's importation "crime"?

Most officers who sell their Off Rosters are legit and already registered. some guns belong to the department which I’ve seen when departments do a group buy for instance Staccatoes, they don’t belong to the individual they belong to the department but that LEO would have to be in the very wrong of mind to try and sell that one. Literally 99% they won’t even attempt it but there is some crazy people out there.

 

[Librarian]

I guess my question is does a CA Type 1 LEO have to register an off-roster item or part when they receive it from out-0of state or where ever? In other words, if I pay the off-roster LEO prices, am I assured that what I'm purchasing has previously been registered in CA (seeing there's no way for me to check)?

Yes, just like anyone else who gets a gun.

Usually, that's covered by transfer through a CA FFL - LEO have no exemption from Federal law requiring use of an FFL in that case.

But just like any non-LEO, LEO may get off-Roster handguns via interstate intrafamilial transfer or PPT, and sell those to other CA residents if they choose to.