Scammed on CalGuns

[treelogger]

There was a guy in the old Calguns days that pulled off this famous group buy scam.

Before the "crate full of Mosins" scam, there was the "OLL group buy scam". Must have been late 2005 or early 2006. A guy (name shall not be mentioned, but their current name is Lady Benjamin Cannon) bought a large number of stripped OLL lowers, claiming to resell them at no profit (nonsense). He deposited them at a local FFL, who didn't have enough gun safe space to actually store them. Since at that time the CA DoJ hated OLLs, an audit of the FFL happened that day (not a coincidence), and confiscated all these "guns" that were being improperly stored. Oops, but to be expected if you are dealing with scammers.

The real problem was that the guy claimed to be employing many many lawyers to get them back from the DoJ BoF, but in reality was doing absolutely nothing. Probably because he had no money and was flat out broke (his AmEx card was overdrawn by about $50K). It took a long time (half a year or so) until a generous and competent person funded lawyers, poked the DoJ a little bit, and the lowers re-appeared. The rest is history.

 

[ikeo1]

Security is always in layers. There’s no single prevention. There’s always a threat vector. We can try to provide guidance for best practices but people will always try to run a scam.

The best we can do is be diligent. I originally wanted to lock down logins here to social logins because they have better security protocols than people do with their passwords. I’m not a fan of passwords without 2FA, non-SMS. The community didn’t want it but it is available for people for more secure logins via passwordless logins.

Once I have a draft of a guide, I’ll run it by this thread for everyone to review.

 

[DDM4556]

FWIW, lots of red flags in the listing. Throwing in $200 worth of rounds with a $350 gun... Holster included too.

The deposit is not a red flag to me IF the purchaser is new and has no established history or feedback. I would also require a deposit in that case - but I have plenty of feedback on Calguns to substantiate my request.

Sorry that happened OP. The 2A community members should always look out for each other. Most do, but there's always the few...

 

[Parley27]

FWIW, lots of red flags in the listing. Throwing in $200 worth of rounds with a $350 gun... Holster included too.

The deposit is not a red flag to me IF the purchaser is new and has no established history or feedback. I would also require a deposit in that case - but I have plenty of feedback on Calguns to substantiate my request.

Sorry that happened OP. The 2A community members should always look out for each other. Most do, but there's always the few...

I know I should been a little bit more thorough and careful when I did the transaction. I seen he had a couple a reviews and I had just completed my 3rd PPT on CG so I was like okay I’m 3/3 then bam, scummed outta $150 when I should’ve know better.

 

[DDM4556]

Security is always in layers. There’s no single prevention. There’s always a threat vector. We can try to provide guidance for best practices but people will always try to run a scam.

The best we can do is be diligent. I originally wanted to lock down logins here to social logins because they have better security protocols than people do with their passwords. I’m not a fan of passwords without 2FA, non-SMS. The community didn’t want it but it is available for people for more secure logins via passwordless logins.

Once I have a draft of a guide, I’ll run it by this thread for everyone to review.

Makes perfect sense, but I'm glad you didn't. Some of us avoid social media and would not want that preventing us from joining forums like this one.

 

[patbateman]

I'm a dinosaur. Things were handled differently back when my kind roamed the Earth. In my walnut-sized brain, things were better back then, and I'm not going to change.

After establishing contact with someone via email/forums/etc., we talk on the phone. I know their full name. If their area code doesn't match their location, I need to know why. If someone can't complete a deal by voice and has an alias, then maybe we can't do business.

Once we work out the details, if I'm the seller, they come to me. I'm not a delivery boy. If they can't come and get it, maybe we can't do business.

If I'm the buyer, I'll pick the item up from the seller's location. I don't meet people in parking lots, I don't meet people on the side of the road. If the seller doesn't have a permanent location, then they're no better than a hobo. I don't deal with hobos.

I don't use Venmo, Zelle, Bitcoin, Facebook Bucks, or whatever other silly games the youngsters now play. If someone doesn't have the cash in their pocket, we have nothing to discuss.

Whether I'm the buyer or seller, I cyberstalk the other guy. I look them up on Facebook, Google, and I check the Street View of their location. If something is off, then maybe we can't do business.

Agree with everything except a buyer insisting they meet at my house, wtf. Hard pass and that's when the red flag in my mind goes up that a person refuses to meet at a Starbucks and goes "naw dude, lemme come to your house, thats the only I will buy this Eotech off you".

 

[SoCalRayJr]

I think this was doomed from the beginning.
If I am buying a firearm from an forum user, we need to meet in person to do the transfer..there for there is no need for a deposit I will give you all the money when we meet. If the seller flakes when you are to meetup, then you are only out a little time and some gas. This is how I have always done business with other forum members and it has worked out just fine. Anyone who does not agree to that is more than likely a SCAM!

 

[Parley27]

I think this was doomed from the beginning.
If I am buying a firearm from an forum user, we need to meet in person to do the transfer..there for there is no need for a deposit I will give you all the money when we meet. If the seller flakes when you are to meetup, then you are only out a little time and some gas. This is how I have always done business with other forum members and it has worked out just fine. Anyone who does not agree to that is more than likely a SCAM!

Bro I know. That’s my fault for being too forthcoming. I was 3/3 on CG doing FTF transactions. So I was like okay, this forum seems legit and I seen he had good reviews so I took a chance which burnt me at the end. Lesson learned for sure.

 

[DB>)>]

It's quite possible that the listing was legit, but the most common "game" was for the scammer to look for a "buyer" posting in response to the listing, then injecting themselve in a "man in the middle" type attack, sending the now "mark" a message to set the "con".

I posted a couple times that the practice of posting a message in response to a listing should be avoided, and all contact should have been through PM or some sort of direct email - thus avoiding the impersonators who want deposits.... and don't have photos other than what they scraped off the internet... and don't actually have hwhat you want, but know if the deal's good enough, SOMEONE will "bite"

Best practices would start with NO posting publically to respond to a listing, ONLY "controlled" contact via PM or email connected to the user account(s).

There should ALWAYS be communication by voice or text (yeah, I used to hate texting, but it's actually pretty "safe" and may help you spot the typical ESL scammer....)

If someone asks for a "deposit", be VERY suspicious and ONLY use a method with recourse should something not work out (be aware that certain entities providing transaction capabilities are NOT "firearm freindly"). This means no "friends and family" type things where it's expected you know who you sent money and can go punch 'em in the face if they scam you, unlike some rando nut job you ran across on the Internet!

Firearms should be transferred consistent with all applicable laws - PPT FTF at an FFL, or FFL to FFL transfer where applicable. Other stuff should be sent via a trackable method, so both parties can see where the package is.

 

[Parley27]

Same persons is on calguns trying to scam again with the same gun and pics

Like New XD40 & 380 Rounds Of Ammo - Calguns.net

Springfield XD40 40 S&W Menifee $350 with 380 rounds included No shipping Has maybe 50 rounds through it and sitting in my safe. Will also toss in 380 rounds which is about $200 retail or more. Also have a safari land holster to go with the package as well.

www.calguns.net

 

[DDM4556]

Same persons is on calguns trying to scam again with the same gun and pics

Like New XD40 & 380 Rounds Of Ammo - Calguns.net

Springfield XD40 40 S&W Menifee $350 with 380 rounds included No shipping Has maybe 50 rounds through it and sitting in my safe. Will also toss in 380 rounds which is about $200 retail or more. Also have a safari land holster to go with the package as well.

www.calguns.net

Interesting. He has an early join date. Since there's no feedback anymore, i'm tempted to mess with him a little.

 

[FriedChickies]

When I posted on CalGuns stating I was in the market for many HK USP models, I received countless scam messages. They were just pouring in... but these scams were somewhat easy to distinguish and filter from the real ones, and thank god I made it out unscathed. Actually, some really good Bay Area peeps messaged me themselves after seeing my WTB posts and gave me some rock-solid deals on many of the HK handguns I own now (which I'm very thankful of).

Hella scammers in this community, gotta be on high-alert alot of the times. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is (except for the WTS Sig M18 post two weeks ago haha).

 

[rrivina89]

Deposit is unnecessary if buyer and seller are both genuine and sincere in making the transaction happen.

 

[bigRich22]

There was a guy in the old Calguns days that pulled off this famous group buy scam. I actually met him, a friend of mine bought some of the guns from him. What he did is he back when you could just transfer C&R guns without going thru an FFL he set up a group buy where he was buying crates of Mosins and driving them back from AZ and distributing them.

He took money for something like 200 guns and only delivered part of them. But the fun part was he kept stringing people along on the forum saying he was getting the guns. He’d scammed people on other sites too.

I mean, where I come from, that gets ya shot probably why that doesn't happen anymore there.

Really sorry to OP that happened! Probably for better because the XD is not the best choice you have available IMO. The way I look at life's upsets - It's a lesson that was learned that makes you sharper. We all paid for school or a class at some point and those lessons are far more expensive than what we usually learn as we navigate life.

I, too, had natural trust in the 2A community and never thought this type of scam would be a reality. I put a $100 deposit down on a like new stacatto P for a very attractive price I found on Calguns. I paid maybe a few hundred bucks over retail in other states and it came with a $ 450 trigger installed. The deal went through without a hitch and it ends up the guy is really cool and helpful. He even offered to help me after the transaction. He is a competition shooter and knows a few of the guys I have previously dealt with and knows an employee at a Sportsman's Warehouse I know. Very grateful lady luck was on my side.

Hope your next deal makes up for the last, bud. All about balance.

 

[Joker67]

I’ve sold quite a few things on Calguns … ammo , gun parts etc . 9 out of 10 responses are flakes and scammers or just low IQ. I’ve bought /sold stuff FTF from some very nice folks and a few complete a**holes. Being a 2 A person does not mean you are ethical or accountable. It’s ok to block someone or not respond. Only half of the people you interact with will leave feedback.

 

[wepnlvr]

I’ve sold quite a few things on Calguns … ammo , gun parts etc . 9 out of 10 responses are flakes and scammers or just low IQ. I’ve bought /sold stuff FTF from some very nice folks and a few complete a**holes. Being a 2 A person does not mean you are ethical or accountable. It’s ok to block someone or not respond. Only half of the people you interact with will leave feedback

most of the people ive done transactions with on there have been great for the most part. dont think ive came across a scammer yet im sure there's been plenty. but one should always take precautions. your right about not everyone being ethical or accountable for their actions. for me I dislike the ones who try and just lowball the hell out of you even if its a item that doesn't really lose value. I get that some items can be found way cheaper for less but man some people just keep messaging and messaging. not everyone is on gafs, or other places so some people dont want to sell stuff for less than half of what they paid. just because a person can get a certain item dirt cheap doesnt mean every seller has to drop there price to accommodate one person.

 

[wepnlvr]

When I posted on CalGuns stating I was in the market for many HK USP models, I received countless scam messages. They were just pouring in... but these scams were somewhat easy to distinguish and filter from the real ones, and thank god I made it out unscathed. Actually, some really good Bay Area peeps messaged me themselves after seeing my WTB posts and gave me some rock-solid deals on many of the HK handguns I own now (which I'm very thankful of).

Hella scammers in this community, gotta be on high-alert alot of the times. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is (except for the WTS Sig M18 post two weeks ago haha).

your definitely right about that. if your going to do a risky buy at least protect yourself the best you can.

 

[rkt88edmo]

Never do a deposit, unless it is someone with a lot of trusted history or personally known. I've done 3 deals out of 20+ that weren't completely transparent. One is a prolific seller who failed to disclose a pretty obvious issue, didn't affect the function of hte gun but was wear and tear aobvve the price range for me, did the deal anyways, annoying.

The second was a guy who had a glock, also had undisclosed light strikes, but was also at a very good price. Cleaned out the firing pin channel and it functions as Gaston intended. I'm pretty sure he knew there were issues, but whatever. I'm undecided as to whether the seller was trying to pull one over on me.

Third gun, 2011, light strikes as well. I am assuming I can fix with proper parts, still haven't gotten aorund to it, but yeah, IMO that guy absollutely knew he was selling me a not well functioning firearm. But from the price I knew something was off. I'll fix it when I get into 1911 smithing one of these days lol.

 

[1911whore]

Never give a deposit.

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

I think this was doomed from the beginning.
If I am buying a firearm from an forum user, we need to meet in person to do the transfer..there for there is no need for a deposit I will give you all the money when we meet. If the seller flakes when you are to meetup, then you are only out a little time and some gas. This is how I have always done business with other forum members and it has worked out just fine. Anyone who does not agree to that is more than likely a SCAM!

Yup. Heya my first online ppt sell buyer. How you liking my old TC contender combo set? lol