Scammed on CalGuns

[Parley27]

Long story short, I met a user on calguns and he had a xd40 for sale with extra mags and with ammo. I reached out to him to on 4/16 to let him know im interested. We come to an agreement and he ask for a deposit, so in good faith I follow thru and give him $. Fast forward to 4/19 he ask for another deposit and at this point he’s given me 2 different emails and a whooole lot of excuses as to why he needs $70. So again, I follow thru and shoot him $. Now today this individual told me he never received any money from me when my bank account says otherwise. I know it’s my bad for being gullible but it was a deal I couldn’t pass up.

So fellas please be aware of scammers on here. He used a google number so he couldn’t be traced or called 1(423) 788-4326

This was his posting on calguns

 

[ikeo1]

Sorry about the loss. Perhaps when deposits are concerned. Do Paypal G&S and then ask for a refund in person and limit the deposit to only travel expenses $20-$50. They can refund you on the spot no charges lost, but if he bails then you can challenge the request.

Perhaps we'll try to come up with a best practices guide to minimize scammers.

 

[Parley27]

for sure, I wasn’t expecting to be scammed bc we have cool 2A community here but I’ll definitely keep that in mind going forward with any transaction

 

[zhyla]

There’s a lot of scamming going on on that site. Nothing really to do with the site itself, it’s just the usual scams.

One interesting thing is the guy has a decent itrader score and knows how to write a listing.

 

[The Badger]

There’s a lot of scamming going on on that site. Nothing really to do with the site itself, it’s just the usual scams.

One interesting thing is the guy has a decent itrader score and knows how to write a listing.

Yeah that one is intriguing. If it was a high end 2011 or something with no itrader it would be more obvious … but on the other hand the multiple numbers and google numbers is vanilla scam stuff. Sorry for your loss it’s a shame people are willing to go to these lengths for 50 bucks

 

[Parley27]

You’re telling me bro, the dude looked solid too, so I figured why not give it a shot. But in hindsight I should’ve been more vigilant about it when I seen the google number. 1 for the scammers and 0 for me hahaha

 

[zhyla]

There was a guy in the old Calguns days that pulled off this famous group buy scam. I actually met him, a friend of mine bought some of the guns from him. What he did is he back when you could just transfer C&R guns without going thru an FFL he set up a group buy where he was buying crates of Mosins and driving them back from AZ and distributing them.

He took money for something like 200 guns and only delivered part of them. But the fun part was he kept stringing people along on the forum saying he was getting the guns. He’d scammed people on other sites too.

 

[Parley27]

There was a guy in the old Calguns days that pulled off this famous group buy scam. I actually met him, a friend of mine bought some of the guns from him. What he did is he back when you could just transfer C&R guns without going thru an FFL he set up a group buy where he was buying crates of Mosins and driving them back from AZ and distributing them.

He took money for something like 200 guns and only delivered part of them. But the fun part was he kept stringing people along on the forum saying he was getting the guns. He’d scammed people on other sites too.

That’s wild bro, I mean it sucks that people got scammed thru the process of that too. With this recent scam I got into, he was able to get $150 from me. And it’s a lesson learned

 

[D.A.V.I.D.]

There’s a lot of scamming going on on that site. Nothing really to do with the site itself, it’s just the usual scams.

One interesting thing is the guy has a decent itrader score and knows how to write a listing.

So anything like 5 or so reviews you need to look at who those came from. I’ve seen on their multiple times where a guy had several reviews but if you looked at them they’re all from accounts made around the same time and they all just have reviews to each other.

 

[zhyla]

So anything like 5 or so reviews you need to look at who those came from. I’ve seen on their multiple times where a guy had several reviews but if you looked at them they’re all from accounts made around the same time and they all just have reviews to each other.

lol why is everyone worried about losing their trader rating there if it’s that easy to fake?

 

[D34DC3N73R]

The GAFS system is pretty good but can get cumbersome. I'd still rather go through the trouble of timestamps and restricted payment methods for new sellers than be an easy target for scammers.

 

[D.A.V.I.D.]

lol why is everyone worried about losing their trader rating there if it’s that easy to fake?

It’s pretty easy to not get scammed by just looking like I just detailed. I have feedback for over 10 years with like 250 something 100% positive feedbacks.

 

[ikeo1]

The GAFS system is pretty good but can get cumbersome. I'd still rather go through the trouble of timestamps and restricted payment methods for new sellers than be an easy target for scammers.

Can you walk me through GAFS? Pros and Cons? Maybe we can make some modifications to the process to fit. It is harder to fake feedback here. Our backend is a bit more built out. It should be tied to a listing. We also have some mechanisms to validate, but it will need to be scalable.

 

[D34DC3N73R]

Can you walk me through GAFS? Pros and Cons? Maybe can can make some modifications to the process to fit. It is harder to fake feedback here. Our backend is a bit more built out. It should be tied to a listing. We also have some mechanisms to validate, but it will need to be scalable.

Sure, items listed for sale must be in a single picture with a handwritten timestamp of both the username and the current date. More detail photos can be included without showing the timestamp. If high value / serialized items like scopes are included in the listing, the timestamp and serial # must be visible in at least 1 photo. New sellers can only accept Paypal goods & services until they have 11 "flair" (completed listings by buying or selling with positive feedback). Once sellers have 11+ flair, they can accept other payment methods. Of course, nothing is perfect and this suggestion wouldn't have even stopped the OPs issue since the seller did have good feedback. People with skill could still photoshop usernames and dates, but it does seem to keep most people honest on GAFS.

Edit: It's not applicable here but, there is a flair bot that will update flairs for users. When a seller has received the payment and the buyer has received the item, the bot + other user is tagged in the listing and once the other user confirms, both user flairs are updated.

 

[D00DST3R]

Sure, items listed for sale must be in a single picture with a handwritten timestamp of both the username and the current date. More detail photos can be included without showing the timestamp. If high value / serialized items like scopes are included in the listing, the timestamp and serial # must be visible in at least 1 photo. New sellers can only accept Paypal goods & services until they have 11 "flair" (completed listings by buying or selling with positive feedback). Once sellers have 11+ flair, they can accept other payment methods. Of course, nothing is perfect and this suggestion wouldn't have even stopped the OPs issue since the seller did have good feedback. People with skill could still photoshop usernames and dates, but it does seem to keep most people honest on GAFS.

Edit: It's not applicable here but, there is a flair bot that will update flairs for users. When a seller has received the payment and the buyer has received the item, the bot + other user is tagged in the listing and once the other user confirms, both user flairs are updated.

Just to help expand a bit more on @D34DC3N73R 's comment, this link might be of help as well @ikeo1 EDIT - #5 is what we're talking about.

 

[Warpspeed]

OP

I'm not so sure I'd see any red flags in the listing myself. I have bought and sold a lot on CG and never taken or sent a deposit for something that was going to be a FTF transaction.

I think the bigger concern these days is old accounts getting hacked - a listing form a hacked account is nearly impossible to detect. There was a fair amount of that going on at snipershide. High dollar stuff too.

 

[RustyIron]

Perhaps we'll try to come up with a best practices guide to minimize scammers.

I'm a dinosaur. Things were handled differently back when my kind roamed the Earth. In my walnut-sized brain, things were better back then, and I'm not going to change.

After establishing contact with someone via email/forums/etc., we talk on the phone. I know their full name. If their area code doesn't match their location, I need to know why. If someone can't complete a deal by voice and has an alias, then maybe we can't do business.

Once we work out the details, if I'm the seller, they come to me. I'm not a delivery boy. If they can't come and get it, maybe we can't do business.

If I'm the buyer, I'll pick the item up from the seller's location. I don't meet people in parking lots, I don't meet people on the side of the road. If the seller doesn't have a permanent location, then they're no better than a hobo. I don't deal with hobos.

I don't use Venmo, Zelle, Bitcoin, Facebook Bucks, or whatever other silly games the youngsters now play. If someone doesn't have the cash in their pocket, we have nothing to discuss.

Whether I'm the buyer or seller, I cyberstalk the other guy. I look them up on Facebook, Google, and I check the Street View of their location. If something is off, then maybe we can't do business.

 

[yatzooa]

OP

I'm not so sure I'd see any red flags in the listing myself. I have bought and sold a lot on CG and never taken or sent a deposit for something that was going to be a FTF transaction.

I think the bigger concern these days is old accounts getting hacked - a listing form a hacked account is nearly impossible to detect. There was a fair amount of that going on at snipershide. High dollar stuff too.

This probably happens a lot of GAFS as well. I've read posts about folks getting scammed by accounts with a really high trading flair. At the same time, GAFS mods had been posting warnings about phishing scams and I've been contacted by scammers/phishers trying to get my reddit account info. My guess is that it's a two part scheme, where the scammers phish for GAFS accounts with a decent amount of flair. Once they have access to those accounts they'd use it to write bogus GAFS listings and take money from folks.

A few phishing/scamming schemes that I've seen (thankfully I saw through the ruse)
1. Victim replies on a real GAFS listing, but the scammer creates a reddit account with an IDENTICAL account name (think replacing lowercase L's with capitals i's). The scammer then PMs the victim and impersonates the seller. Victim sends money to the scammer.
2. Scammer creates a subreddit similarly named to /r/GunAccessoriesForSale and becomes a mod of it. Scammer reaches out to a random GAFS victim saying the GAFS victim was called out for scamming and the only way to prove their innocence is to give the mod (scammer) the victim's login info so that the mod/mod team can go through their PMS. Victim sends login info to the scammer.

When I was active on GAFS, I'd see them doing a lot of posts/alerts on potential scamming/phishing attempts to educate the community on what to look out for.

@ikeo1 you might want to reserve any permutation/substitution of your name to avoid scam 2 LOL. Also, free free to delete this post or let me know if i should remove the phishing/schemes that I've seen (so I don't give folks ideas).

 

[Parley27]

OP

I'm not so sure I'd see any red flags in the listing myself. I have bought and sold a lot on CG and never taken or sent a deposit for something that was going to be a FTF transaction.

I think the bigger concern these days is old accounts getting hacked - a listing form a hacked account is nearly impossible to detect. There was a fair amount of that going on at snipershide. High dollar stuff too.

I thought the same thing. I seen he had good reviews so I took a shot. Hopefully we have some provisions to help stop the scamming in the 2a community.

 

[Warpspeed]

The worst has been those who post WTB ads - you should be very careful if you should so choose to go fishing, never know what you might hook.