SSE FIREARMS

[BigBlaze]

And if the gun was reported as stolen. If not, anyone can sell it.

You're right.

 

[gorgothmog]

This pretty much nails it. An SSE/semi conversion is no more considered “manufacturing an unsafe handgun” than simply painting a firearm under the current penal code. It’s likely to remain that way unless and until there’s a test case addressing either painting or SSE/semi conversions.

The whole IT infrastructure that is built around California gun law is a reflection of legislative intent: make registration, governance, compliance, and transactions administratively painful. The whole system is transaction-centric, and not person-centric. It shifts all compliance responsibility to those engaged in the transaction, and eventually possession of said firearm. If you make compliance hard people give up on either being compliant, or more often they just give up their firearms. The laws that California passes are designed to create ambiguity, shadows, and traps. THIS IS WHERE CALIFORNIA DERIVES ITS POWER WITHOUT ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING.

 

[Jimi Jah]

Actually, just like 34 felonies, it's legal until you are sentenced

Except you will pay a sh*t load of lawyer fees before your sentencing. In that regard, you lose before you win.

 

[909gunner]

Very interesting. This goes with what I've been saying: transfer risk to the gun owner at the time of transaction.

Old owner not new

 

[909gunner]

Why would I ask for proof of ownership? What is proof of ownership? A DROS is not proof of ownership. It means absolutely nothing to a dealer.
Again, two CA resident walk in and request a PPT the store has to do it as long as the firearm is CA compliant.
The CADOJ is approving the buyer not necessarily the configuration of the firearm.

Again you need to look at the CADOJ veribage. :


Does that mean if a person paints a on roster firearm that they may of manufactured an unsafe handgun since it was not approved like that???

Based on the CADOJ's wording yes.

So is the problem on the old owner if so correct not new? And that’s wierd 2azone upland has always ask for my doj proof of owner ship and checking if the ar pistol or Ak pistol says semi as well as ammo
Bros Ontario and gay boy turners. I appreciate the info and insight from someone in the field dealing with these.

 

[BONECUTR]

Old owner not new

Old Owner sells semi auto originally SSE'd gun.
CADOJ calls him "Hi I noticed you sold a SSE gun as a semi auto"
Old Owner "I don't answer questions *hangs up*

Even if this were a crime... (One the CADOJ can not cite the PC that is violated on)...
Its a misdemeanor..... You think any judge/DA/Law Enforcement Agency is going to investigate a non felony to that level to "maybe" get a misdemeanor conviction?

Im not trying to tell anyone there is no risk....we are in CA.... but the risk is very low and the PC they reference (32000) is more about manufacturing a firearm. Not reconfiguring one that has already been manufactured.

 

[BONECUTR]

And that’s wierd 2azone upland has always ask for my doj proof of owner ship and checking if the ar pistol or Ak pistol says semi as well as ammo
Bros Ontario and gay boy turners.

Seems more like an excuse to refuse a PPT buy making the two parties jump thru hoops... like I said before there could be many reasons someone does not even have a DROS copy like the Op Law or New Resident Registrations.

 

[JackRydden224]

Seems more like an excuse to refuse a PPT buy making the two parties jump thru hoops... like I said before there could be many reasons someone does not even have a DROS copy like the Op Law or New Resident Registrations.

Not speaking for 2A, just a guess....

2A Zone does quite a few SSE's and should they also facilitate PPT's that turn SSE's into semiauto it could be a bad look. You and I don't get audited as individuals but 2A Zone as a FFL does get vists from the DOJ. Ammo Bros and Turners are chains and chains tend to be more careful with things in the legal grey. We've known this about Turners for years.

 

[909gunner]

Seems more like an excuse to refuse a PPT buy making the two parties jump thru hoops... like I said before there could be many reasons someone does not even have a DROS copy like the Op Law or New Resident Registrations.

It’s wierd not to ask for proof of ownership of seller what if the gun is stolen nd not reported yet or is reported

 

[p--and--p]

lol, these forums are out of this world. I need the option of ignoring the whole general discussion group. 10 pages about how a few of you wouldn't dare do anything lol, but for sure know you would vote against trump. Where can I send the cookie.

 

[909gunner]

There’s literally an unwatched button at the top of the forum so you don’t get notifications.

lol, these forums are out of this world. I need the option of ignoring the whole general discussion group. 10 pages about how a few of you wouldn't dare do anything lol, but for sure know you would vote against trump. Where can I send the coo

 

[gorgothmog]

Old owner not new

I can tell you how systems are designed and what their purposes are, but the nitty gritty of filling out forms, where the rubber ACTUALLY meets the road is better left to the pros. Glad we have @BONECUTR sharing his wisdom and experience.

 

[BONECUTR]

Not speaking for 2A, just a guess....

2A Zone does quite a few SSE's and should they also facilitate PPT's that turn SSE's into semiauto it could be a bad look. You and I don't get audited as individuals but 2A Zone as a FFL does get vists from the DOJ. Ammo Bros and Turners are chains and chains tend to be more careful with things in the legal grey. We've known this about Turners for years.

2A/Ammo Bros/Turners.... all sell so many firearms so its not like they are going to search their ATF bound book and then in the DES (DROS) System to see how they ran it.... again it will be on the person selling it.

 

[gorgothmog]

Up your butt are you retarded? There’s literally an unwatched button at the top of the forum so you don’t get notifications.

This is beginning to look like the off-topic section on calguns.net, lol. @909gunner @five.five-six pack it in guys. You've made your case to us and the Cal DoJ by contacting them directly. That is certainly commendable. Go out at get an SSE pistol, or not. It's entirely up to you. That's the consensus. Go back and read through EVERYTHING. If I can't convince you, nobody can.

 

[cab3rn]

 

[BONECUTR]

It’s wierd not to ask for proof of ownership of seller what if the gun is stolen nd not reported yet or is reported

Literally not my concern. I highly doubt someone will come in with a stolen firearm to do the paperwork lawfully.... thats very dumb as we are getting their ID. If it seems suspicious dealers can submit the serial to the ATF though their portal.

Back to what I said before, how do you prove ownership? A receipt? A Dros? Those can all be scanned doctored. Even if they are not they don't prove you are the owner. They just show at one time you bought that gun or a DROS was submitted. Doesn't prove you are the current owner.

 

[five.five-six]

You and five.five.six. resorting to gay stuff when the majority tells y'all that yous wrong.
It seems like a pattern and obvious projection.

Don’t judge me.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Forgive my ignorance but what is this “Everytown” that keeps getting mentioned?

It's a literary device meant to be any town, like saying "Joe Six Pack" for an average guy or "Karen" for a meddling petty annoying post-wall woman with a ridiculous haircut.

 

[Warpspeed]

Forgive my ignorance but what is this “Everytown” that keeps getting mentioned?

Everytown for Gun Safety - Michael Bloomberg's virtue signaling side hustle

 

[DB>)>]

GEEEZZZZZZ... lay people should not try to figure out legal stuff.... It'll make your head hurt, and according to St. Benitez, "make an angel swear"!!

I'm guessing this was all "triggered" by the new box(es) on the 4473, which apply SPECIFICALLY to "governmental adjacent" employee purchases of off roster guns (AKA "unsafe handguns")!!!

You have to learn how to parse, reference, and cross reference paragraphs, sections, and subsections, and if you do THAT, you will discover that unless you are listed in 32000(b), especially Paragraph (6)(A-V), PC 32000 doesn't even apply to YOU, the average citizen!

Notably, for your friendly neighborhood FFL, 32000(c)(1) specifies that they:
"shall not process the sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun between a person who has obtained an unsafe handgun pursuant to an exemption specified in paragraph (6) or (7) of subdivision (b) and a person who is not exempt from the requirements of this section."
In plain Engrish, if someone in that list of "special" exempt employees tries to sell to the average Joe, the FFL should process the sale or transfer...

32000 does seem to compel the DoJ to keep a list of guns sold to those ((6)(A-V)) "special" government adjacent employees who get to buy off rosters like LEO does (as specified within the code section), but are PROHIBITED from reselling said "unsafe guns" to the average citizen (unlike LEO).

I'm still unsure why any of the "special" employees would not know they can't resell these "unsafe" guns, and would admit to violating the prohibitions thereto by doing a PPT...

I'm not sure how any of this intersects with SSE, if at all... and all the FUDing seems completely unwarranted once the law is parsed and disected! I did find an interesting page with an actual legal opinion by an atty, and to me it seems to make the SSE "exemption" rather problematic with the amount of modification required to meet the requirements, or to revert such modification, but I'm sure a different attorney could come to a different conclusion for a sufficient amount of money!

Understanding California's Unsafe Handgun Act and Single-Shot Exemption - California Firearms Lawyer | The Davis Law Firm

California’s Unsafe Handgun Act, enacted in 2001, is a cornerstone of the state’s firearm regulation framework, designed to enhance public safety by

www.calgunlawyers.com

PS - If you aren't convinced that the laws are deliberately written to confuse and obfuscate things so badly that no one really knows what is going on (or worse yet to leave gaping "holes" to creatively inspire tyrants and attorneys), this oughta do it....