Thoughts on 1911s vs. 2011s in California

[Hindsight]

In terms of tiers, I guess I was thinking more about price, which may or may not equate to quality, but definitely reflects obtainability for the average guy.

With 1911s, we’re spoiled with choice at all price points, even in California. Tisas and Rock Island provide great value by making perfectly serviceable, entry level products in the $500 to $1k range. Then, Springfield, Kimber, Sig, and others make excellent mid-range 1911s in the $1k to $2k range. There’re even premium “semi-custom” options, like Dan Wesson, in the under $3k range. (All prices reflect ~20% tax, unfortunately.)

But when it comes to 2011s, it seems hard (impossible?) to find anything with a starting MSRP under $2k to $3k. That, frankly, surprised me.

Yah, 2011s are kind of their own beast and the price of entry is higher than single stacks even though they’re technically somewhat easier to work on lol.

Part of that is a massive market wave of hype that’s nearing its crest though. It’s been funny to see after following and only shooting 2011s over the last decade +.

 

[RustVendor]

Fair. I think the wider 2011 space has established/has a broad agreement and understanding that the mid tier is pretty large and somewhat undefined, but is generally understood to be around the below Atlas level in terms of quality, fitment, and price.

So, stuff like cosaint, Akai, Alpha American, accuracy X, CNC, etc. and the list goes on and on. Many of those which are available in CA new.

And the $15k is a weird one because that’s not just random TTI stuff or something, it’s titanium infinities (I think they’re the only company making 2011s out of titanium and they also make pretty much every single part down to the springs from barstock themselves in house), Rafferty’s/Venom’s new starting price, what you can get up to with full customs from the top builders that are hand fitting quality sourced parts for your custom build. That covers a pretty wide range of stuff that’s all top tier performance wise, but obviously an infinity isn’t going to be fit as well, have as tight tolerances, be as accurate, or have as long of a round count as stuff that’s built to marvel spec.

For sure I would just put those all in the same tier as atlas because they are all very close in price. don't forget atlas not that long ago was the price and quality of those others, they were fitting outsourced parts and hand fitting everything just out of necessity because there was no production line. ironically now that they do have a production line that is much more automated the price is now even higher. And the 5500 dollar guns are filled with Atlas parts. You can read comments from the 10k custom builders that say that Atlas is crap and they do this and that wrong. There's no end to how high it can go LOL.

 

[RedHemi]

If it's going to be mainly a range toy I say you can't go wrong with the 1911 platform. I also would look at CZ. I bought my first 1911 9mm around ten years ago and fell in love with it. After about four years it was heading fast to 10k through it. Now it still shot fine and had no problems but I wanted to save it from that and decided to try a few other brands and went with CZ. Well I now own 19 CZs and really enjoy shooting them and creating different versions. I like to put Tac Sport and Bull Shadows on the 75 series frames which make really nice bullseye shooters. Start with a Springfield and tune it to where you shoot it the best. Oh and Kimber's are a little nicer on fit and finish but the series 80 models suck with that FPB in it. I do have a raptor and it's a great gun but hate the FPB.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

If staccato does an hd around the glock 15rd slimeline mags with single sided safety and super minimal slide milling to bring the price down we will have a winner.

 

[Hindsight]

If staccato does an hd around the glock 15rd slimeline mags with single sided safety and super minimal slide milling to bring the price down we will have a winner.

Unlikely on the last two.

Maybe as an aftermarket option or factory service for the single sided safety, but ambis help them sell as it works for more people. The slide milling is also unlikely as they’re kind of known for relatively functional, deep, and wide serrations and they seem to really like the x serrations.

The slimline Glock is an idea they’ve had for a while that I pitched them on back when the C4X was announced.

An integrally comped HD slimline G43X sized 2011 that would give them a niche in the carry 2011 no one has been able to fulfill thus far. They said they had gotten similar feedback from agencies, plain clothes, UC, and specialized units for a more concealable model that still had high performance.

The closest people are probably going to get anytime soon though is a MJD grip conversion using the upcoming 2011 -> CS grip or the eventual MJD HD grip. Seemingly, based on the T&E of the “P5X” by CAG currently, they’ve going up in size still before they run out of runway and have to look to downscale. Kind of like what they did for the legacy stuff prior to V3.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

Unlikely on the last two.

Maybe as an aftermarket option or factory service for the single sided safety, but ambis help them sell as it works for more people. The slide milling is also unlikely as they’re kind of known for relatively functional, deep, and wide serrations and they seem to really like the x serrations.

The slimline Glock is an idea they’ve had for a while that I pitched them on back when the C4X was announced.

An integrally comped HD slimline G43X sized 2011 that would give them a niche in the carry 2011 no one has been able to fulfill thus far. They said they had gotten similar feedback from agencies, plain clothes, UC, and specialized units for a more concealable model that still had high performance.

The closest people are probably going to get anytime soon though is a MJD grip conversion using the upcoming 2011 -> CS grip or the eventual MJD HD grip. Seemingly, based on the T&E of the “P5X” by CAG currently, they’ve going up in size still before they run out of runway and have to look to downscale. Kind of like what they did for the legacy stuff prior to V3.

Well with this down turn they're gonna have to find a way to capture more sales. Piggy backing on the 43x roster gun might help might not.

 

[sonofeugene]

From my viewpoint, a 1911 is not a 1911 unless it’s a 45.

 

[FriedChickies]

For sure I would just put those all in the same tier as atlas because they are all very close in price. don't forget atlas not that long ago was the price and quality of those others, they were fitting outsourced parts and hand fitting everything just out of necessity because there was no production line. ironically now that they do have a production line that is much more automated the price is now even higher. And the 5500 dollar guns are filled with Atlas parts. You can read comments from the 10k custom builders that say that Atlas is crap and they do this and that wrong. There's no end to how high it can go LOL.

After personally getting to know some folks involved in the 2011 custom gun game, it wasn’t difficult for me to see that there’s a ton of ego and waving around. It’s actually pretty funny to see.

 

[jag9953]

After personally getting to know some folks involved in the 2011 custom gun game, it wasn’t difficult for me to see that there’s a ton of ego and waving around. It’s actually pretty funny to see.

Care to share an anecdote?

 

[FriedChickies]

Care to share an anecdote?

Someone at Atlas Gunworks (who shall remain unnamed) said a competitor's thumb rest design was stupid.

Said person then copied the geometry of the competitor's thumb rest, designed their "own", and now sells it as an Atlas part you can purchase.

Again, this person will remain anonymous. Don't bother asking me.

 

[jag9953]

Someone at Atlas Gunworks (who shall remain unnamed) said a competitor's thumb rest design was stupid.

Said person then copied the geometry of the competitor's thumb rest, designed their "own", and now sells it as an Atlas part you can purchase.

Again, this person will remain anonymous. Don't bother asking me.

Sure dude

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I’ve got a P226 so I don’t feel the need for a double stack 1911. Could always get an SAO P226 as well if the DA initial pull bothered me, which it doesn’t.

 

[bonesurf]

I’ve got a P226 so I don’t feel the need for a double stack 1911. Could always get an SAO P226 as well if the DA initial pull bothered me, which it doesn’t.

The legion SAO….i wanna see if the X and X5 are really any different.

If you are using CA mags then it’s really purely a question of the shooting experience. Which IMO mostly depends on what in general “feels” better in hand. I generally favor 1911 with thin grips so 2011 is generally not as “nice”. Always feels a little chonky.

 

[RustVendor]

From my viewpoint, a 1911 is not a 1911 unless it’s a 45.

 

[Gawernator]

From my viewpoint, a 1911 is not a 1911 unless it’s a 45.

I bet my dad would say something like that lmao