Voting... Will We Be Able To?

[Fulcrum]

Ok. You are referring to an order requiring the voter register to comply with citizenship. If you aren’t a citizen than you shouldn’t be voting..

I haven’t read the entire executive order but I just read about half of it. And who knows if California is going to comply with it.

I don’t think that’s the one he’s referring to. I think it’s the mail in voting one. There have been several.

I think everyone agrees only citizens should vote in Federal elections. It’s the law. It’s in the Constitution. I don’t think you are ever going to find anyone arguing otherwise and supporting non-citizens voting. I also don’t think non-citizens do vote. At least not in numbers that change the outcomes of elections. Trying to cheat in elections one vote at a time by getting non-citizens to vote would probably be the stupidest way to do it. It’s a felony. Do you think there are non-citizens, especially illegal immigrants, in this country willing to commit a felony in order to cast one illegal voter? Why would they do it? I think they are more likely to have other priorities, like keeping their head down, doing their work, staying out of trouble, and not committing Fedral crimes that would get them tossed in prison and then deported. Different politicians have been making this illegal voting claim for almost thirty years that I can personally remember, starting with Bush 43. They searched and searched for evidence and never found it. Trump 45 did the same and never found it. Trump 47 is doing it right now and has no evidence. It’s not happening.

 

[Seeed]

I mean, I honestly wouldn't notice in time probably if I didn't get my ballot mailed to me. I don't know how busy all of you are but my life doesn't revolve around voting.

What does being busy or not in life have to do with assuming life revolves around voting? To some people it's important. It's their oppotunity to be involved in some idea of a choice or democracy. Clearly that's not important enough to you, but certainly there are people that have much busier lives than you, that think it's important enough for them, to make time for.

 

[chiroken007]

Is the statement that this critically damaged the integrity of our voting system based on evidence, or is this more of a gut feelings thing?

Voting in person could just as easily be argued to be damaging the integrity of our voting system. Where I lived in Texas they've cut almost half the polling machines (unsurprisingly in entirely minority neighborhoods that happen to be huge swing risks). So they're basically bottlenecking the rights of all of those Americans just like Californian gun laws are bottlenecking our rights here. You've got some places now where over a million people are expected to vote on less than a hundred voting machines all on the same day. We've already seen people waiting in line 5 hours to vote before this happened. It's clear this isn't about protecting the sanctity of voting it's about barring a certain class of people from being able to participate in elections.

Voting is a right just like access to arms. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

We gather data from every single vote so spotting anomalies isn't like some difficult thing.

I appreciate your perspective on using in person voting to bottleneck voters. That’s absolutely a legitimate concern. I am in support of mail in ballots when there are reliable verification processes. Here in CA there is almost no such thing until after voting has taken place.

I personally have witnessed issues where illegitimate ballots were consistently mailed to my address. 5 ballots where only two voters live. I have friends with the same story. There is also a Californian who registered her dog to vote and the dog received ballots for 3 election cycles. The dog actually voted for 2 before she self reported with disappointment it was not caught in the verification process at any point.

 

[Fulcrum]

Personally, I think we will be able to vote in CA in this election with little or no problem, and it will probably be some form of mail-in voting like we have been doing for some years now, even if this illegal executive order is implemented. The state will absolutely guarantee we can vote. Maybe they will send out the ballots using an alternative shipping service, not USPS, if it comes to that. You might want to make a plan for how to vote in another way if the worst happens, but I think this order will probably be struck down, and if not, the state will find a way.

 

[RustyIron]

I don't mail in my ballot and I don't drop it off. I walk into the polling place and cast my vote in person. This is the way all able-bodied Americans did it in the old days. The only ones who did it differently were deployed soldiers, businessmen who had to be out of town, the elderly, the infirm, and those who couldn't get their lazy asses off the couch. Times have changed, but I have not. I'll continue to vote at the polling place for as long as I'm able.

 

[Fulcrum]

What does being busy or not in life have to do with assuming life revolves around voting? To some people it's important. It's their oppotunity to be involved in some idea of a choice or democracy. Clearly that's not important enough to you, but certainly there are people that have much busier lives than you, that think it's important enough for them, to make time for.

I agree. In America, we are supposed to govern ourselves. That was the entire reason for the American Revolution and the main principle of the US Constitution -- to establish a nation where the citizens govern themselves through representative democracy. Voting and jury service are our way of exercising the right to govern ourselves. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it is working, but that's not a reason to give up entirely on it. We currently have the ability to get rid of our elected officials if we want to by voting them out of office. This executive order is about trying to take that away or make it harder do, and we must not let that happen. Exercise your right as a citizen to vote and keep an eye on anyone trying to deny you that right.

 

[RustVendor]

I appreciate your perspective on using in person voting to bottleneck voters. That’s absolutely a legitimate concern. I am in support of mail in ballots when there are reliable verification processes. Here in CA there is almost no such thing until after voting has taken place.

I personally have witnessed issues where illegitimate ballots were consistently mailed to my address. 5 ballots where only two voters live. I have friends with the same story. There is also a Californian who registered her dog to vote and the dog received ballots for 3 election cycles. The dog actually voted for 2 before she self reported with disappointment it was not caught in the verification process at any point.

The system caught the dog, the process is explained here https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/california-dog-vote-22348108.php

 

[Fulcrum]

I don't mail in my ballot and I don't drop it off. I walk into the polling place and cast my vote in person. This is the way all able-bodied Americans did it in the old days. The only ones who did it differently were deployed soldiers, businessmen who had to be out of town, the elderly, the infirm, and those who couldn't get their lazy asses off the couch. Times have changed, but I have not. I'll continue to vote at the polling place for as long as I'm able.

I used to love to vote in person. My wife would get a mail in ballot due to an extremely long commute and having trouble finding time on election day. She just preferred it. But I enjoyed the ceremony of goring to the polling place, signing in for my ballot, marking it in person at the booth, and handing it in to be counted. My first mail-in ballot was during Covid, and after that, I just got used to filling it out at home. I still like to drop it off at a polling place or more often at a drop box early. If the executive order is upheld, then I will switch to in-person early voting, no problem. One way or another, I will vote.

 

[couragewolf]

What does being busy or not in life have to do with assuming life revolves around voting? To some people it's important. It's their oppotunity to be involved in some idea of a choice or democracy. Clearly that's not important enough to you, but certainly there are people that have much busier lives than you, that think it's important enough for them, to make time for.

It's not rocket science man a couple of kids, a busy tech job in a household where both people work 60 hours a week, a couple of childrens sports and a busy cadre of family hobbies and extracurriculars means one off events that only occur every 2 years or so can easily go unnoticed.

The simple fact is that mail in ballots increase participation by acting as a call to action. It's not a character flaw, it's a UX improvement on a system.

Forcing multi faceted registrations and purging roles, forcing in person voting and waiting, forcing everyone to save dates and try and track numerous city, state, and federal elections is a UX dark pattern. We should design a system that makes people's rights accessible and persistent, not prohibitive.

 

[Seeed]

It's not rocket science man a couple of kids, a busy tech job in a household where both people work 60 hours a week, a couple of childrens sports and a busy cadre of family hobbies and extracurriculars means one off events that only occur every 2 years or so can easily go unnoticed.

The simple fact is that mail in ballots increase participation by acting as a call to action. It's not a character flaw, it's a UX improvement on a system.

Forcing multi faceted registrations and purging roles, forcing in person voting and waiting, forcing everyone to save dates and try and track numerous city, state, and federal elections is a UX dark pattern. We should design a system that makes people's rights accessible and persistent, not prohibitive.

I'm not arguning these points at all, just your comment that people's lives revolve around voting nonsense cause they dont have "busy" lives.......

"I don't know how busy all of you are but my life doesn't revolve around voting."

 

[chiroken007]

I am all for fair access to voting.. with integrity.
California and other states did “ok” pre COVID.. then the train went off the rails. We haven’t even gotten into ballot harvesting and all that jazz.

 

[couragewolf]

I am all for fair access to voting.. with integrity.
California and other states did “ok” pre COVID.. then the train went off the rails. We haven’t even gotten into ballot harvesting and all that jazz.

Sadly we have the technology to completely digitize all of this while retaining maximum privacy, and no one cares enough to implement it.

 

[Fulcrum]

It's not rocket science man a couple of kids, a busy tech job in a household where both people work 60 hours a week, a couple of childrens sports and a busy cadre of family hobbies and extracurriculars means one off events that only occur every 2 years or so can easily go unnoticed.

The simple fact is that mail in ballots increase participation by acting as a call to action. It's not a character flaw, it's a UX improvement on a system.

Forcing multi faceted registrations and purging roles, forcing in person voting and waiting, forcing everyone to save dates and try and track numerous city, state, and federal elections is a UX dark pattern. We should design a system that makes people's rights accessible and persistent, not prohibitive.

I absolutely agree with you on that. I think the first time you said it, you didn't explain it as well as you did here, and it sounded like you were just too busy to care about voting. I think should easy to vote.

One of the technology improvements I really appreciate is the BallotTrax thing (whatever it is called). I signed up for it several years ago, and it texts and/or sends email notifications from the Secretary of State's office to say that your ballot has been mailed to you, it has been received when you mail it back or drop it off, and it has been counted. It allows you to track all the steps, so you know if something has gone wrong, like it was mailed to you, but you didn't get it. Or it has been sent back, but you weren't the one to send it in. Or you did send it back, but it was not received. Or it was received, but not counted. It allows you to cure any malfunctions in the process.

 

[Gravel]

I am all for fair access to voting.. with integrity.
California and other states did “ok” pre COVID.. then the train went off the rails. We haven’t even gotten into ballot harvesting and all that jazz.

My earlier post addressed ballot harvesting without using that term. And for those who didn’t recognize it, it was satirical, but probably a lot closer to the truth than most are willing to accept.

In person voting, same day counting, Election Day as a federal holiday, is by far the best answer if accurate results matter.

If you can’t be bothered to leave your house for an hour or two during a voting holiday, then the future of our nation obviously isn’t important to you, and I respect your decision. We managed to vote for many decades without using the mail system, we can do it again.

Our current system is, at best, full of weaknesses that could be exploited for fraudulent purposes. Whatever party is in power could easily use those weaknesses to gain votes. Maybe thats not happening now, but the opportunity is huge and easily exploited.

 

[Gravel]

No, that’s not how it works.

My post was satirical (mostly) but possibly much closer to the truth than we want to admit.

If you don’t think there’s any truth to my post, please explain how the opportunities I laid out are not possible.

 

[Jimi Jah]

I vote every election but I don't know if my ballots are counted or destroyed. My confidence level is very low here.

I assume even if counted I will loose no matter. After all, that's how it works in the 3rd world.

 

[chiroken007]

Sadly we have the technology to completely digitize all of this while retaining maximum privacy, and no one cares enough to implement it.

A resource like ID.me etc could work for most people. Not all of course.

 

[chiroken007]

I absolutely agree with you on that. I think the first time you said it, you didn't explain it as well as you did here, and it sounded like you were just too busy to care about voting. I think should easy to vote.

One of the technology improvements I really appreciate is the BallotTrax thing (whatever it is called). I signed up for it several years ago, and it texts and/or sends email notifications from the Secretary of State's office to say that your ballot has been mailed to you, it has been received when you mail it back or drop it off, and it has been counted. It allows you to track all the steps, so you know if something has gone wrong, like it was mailed to you, but you didn't get it. Or it has been sent back, but you weren't the one to send it in. Or you did send it back, but it was not received. Or it was received, but not counted. It allows you to cure any malfunctions in the process.

In that note. This last election cycle for the primaries.. my wife and I did not receive our ballots by mail. The system attested that they had been delivered.

 

[Fulcrum]

In that note. This last election cycle for the primaries.. my wife and I did not receive our ballots by mail. The system attested that they had been delivered.

So, that sounds like the system working to me. Did you contact anyone to say your ballots were not delivered to you? Did you ask for new ballots or vote in person? Did you get any notification that someone else had voted using your ballots?

 

[chiroken007]

So, that sounds like the system working to me. Did you contact anyone to say your ballots were not delivered to you? Did you ask for new ballots or vote in person? Did you get any notification that someone else had voted using your ballots?

Me not getting ballots means the system works? Nice to know. And yes we did contact the county.