Weird or no PPT - Unhelpful shop rules

[.dC0m]

This reminds me of another slightly irritating policy, what is with gun stores being closed on Monday's? Is it because they are open Saturday's so their employee weekend is Sunday/Monday? Is this a thing everywhere or just my local area?

Not out of the norm - there's a few FFLs in my area that are closed Mondays. Maybe perhaps Monday is the slowest day of the week?

 

[mrdiew]

Obligar F- solar

 

[wtf_calguns_migration]

Yeah. Not sure if that’s even legal but all the shops I called except for Turners were charging storage fees of varying amounts. Again it was a few years ago. I haven’t even bothered to try a PPT in that area since.

Thats distasteful bc I get the perception that spots in their safe are at a premium.
Its like being rushed out of a steak house after the server pumps you into ordering more sides and desserts.
They slam it on the table with the check in one shot and never bother to refill the bread or ask you if you want another drink from the bar.

Except you dont getthe benefit of a meal doing a ppt.

 

[22plinker]

I've been doing PPT's in Southern CA for the last 30 years and could state about 30 times a FFL has come up with some ridiculous issues around doing PPT's


Now in 2025, just a couple weeks ago I heard a new one that I've never heard before:

At Ammo Bros in Miramar, we were told that we (2 individual private parties) would have to pay "them, the store CA Sales and CA Excise taxes if we exchanged money inside the store"...


I know FFL's do not want money to be exchanged inside the store but how can Ammo Bros charge CA SALES TAX on a personal transactions between 2 private people? I just don't get that one.

I can't imagine what it will be like in 50 years from now...

Matt

 

[Avalon]

I've been doing PPT's in Southern CA for the last 30 years and could state about 30 times a FFL has come up with some ridiculous issues around doing PPT's


Now in 2025, just a couple weeks ago I heard a new one that I've never heard before:

At Ammo Bros in Miramar, we were told that we (2 individual private parties) would have to pay "them, the store CA Sales and CA Excise taxes if we exchanged money inside the store"...


I know FFL's do not want money to be exchanged inside the store but how can Ammo Bros charge CA SALES TAX on a personal transactions between 2 private people? I just don't get that one.

I can't imagine what it will be like in 50 years from now...

Matt

They can't. They simply, for whatever reason, don't want money to be exchanged within the store whatsoever so they made up an excuse. Always been weird to me as I've done PPTs at that Ammo Bros before but whatever. Whenever I go to the Turner's a little down south in Kearny Mesa they never care if someone's counting out dollar bills on the counters while waiting for the paperwork to be done. Props to em

 

[22plinker]

They can't. They simply, for whatever reason, don't want money to be exchanged within the store whatsoever so they made up an excuse. Always been weird to me as I've done PPTs at that Ammo Bros before but whatever. Whenever I go to the Turner's a little down south in Kearny Mesa they never care if someone's counting out dollar bills on the counters while waiting for the paperwork to be done. Props to em

"They can't." that's what I thought but I don't even ask anymore because I'm usually more aware of current CA laws than most of the LGS employees.

I just don't like when they state "it's CA LAW" and then once questioned it goes to "it's Store Policy" once they are proven to be wrong. That's happened every time I've addressed their nonsense.

Matt

 

[22plinker]

Just to clarify, I'm not trashing Ammo Bros at all, they are a great shop and I've done several transactions there.

I'm just noting the unlawful TAX on personal PPT's they stated. I will continue to use them.

Matt

 

[Dvrjon]

"They can't." that's what I thought but I don't even ask anymore because I'm usually more aware of current CA laws than most of the LGS employees.

I just don't like when they state "it's CA LAW" and then once questioned it goes to "it's Store Policy" once they are proven to be wrong. That's happened every time I've addressed their nonsense.

Matt

It is CA law. It just doesn’t support their concept. And, since it is the law, they can’t establish a “Store policy” to assess a tax which is not incorporated into State law.

Revenue and Taxation Code Section 36011​

---

36011. Imposition and rate of tax. Commencing July 1, 2024, an excise tax is hereby imposed upon licensed firearms dealers, firearms manufacturers, and ammunition vendors, at the rate of 11 percent of the gross receipts from the retail sale in this state of any firearm, firearm precursor part, or ammunition.

 

[22plinker]

It is CA law. It just doesn’t support their concept. And, since it is the law, they can’t establish a “Store policy” to assess a tax which is not incorporated into State law.

Yes, that is a law but for their sales, not a personal transaction between 2 individuals. I'm not disputing the CA taxes but their wanting to collect "their" tax on 2 private citizens transaction.

Maybe I misspoke but I do not believe they can collet CA taxes on 2 peoples personal transaction.

Thanks for siting the PC, I appreciate any and all input

Matt

 

[Dvrjon]

Yes, that is a law but for their sales, not a personal transaction between 2 individuals. I'm not disputing the CA taxes but their wanting to collect "their" tax on 2 private citizens transaction.

Maybe I misspoke but I do not believe they can collet CA taxes on 2 peoples personal transaction.

Thanks for siting the PC, I appreciate any and all input

Matt

That’s precisely my point. They can’t represent the tax for something it isn’t. That’s fraud.

A Private Party Transfer is, by definition, NOT a retail sale.

 

[22plinker]

That’s precisely my point. They can’t represent the tax for something it isn’t. That’s fraud.

A Private Party Transfer is, by definition, NOT a retail sale.

Exactly, that's why I posted in this thread.

Thanks for the clarification

Matt

 

[Dvrjon]

For those interested in the Private Party Transfer sections in the California Penal Code, they can be found at: Part 6, Title 4, Div 6, Chapter 5.

Please note section 28055.

 

[22plinker]

I'll add to this thread with some "Weird or no PPT" issues I've encountered at FFL's in Southern CA from the boarder to LA. Some are unlawful per their Federal FFL guidelines but they stated this anyway. (for total transparency, I'll out any of the shops that told me this)



1. We will not PPT off roster pistols to civilians

2. We will not transfer legal AR pistols to anyone

3. We won't accept any lock unless it has a recipe withing 30 days

4. We won't accept any lock or safe affidavit, you have to purchase a lock from us to complete the transfer

5. We will not complete the transfer unless the "seller" provides a FSC

6. Wait over there, we only do PPT's after there are no sales at the counter

7. We are a range, we will only do PPT's after there are no range members in the store

8. You cannot bring a blocked mag into our store for the PPT

9. You cannot transfer more than 1 firearm per DROS, you need to have another DROS for the second gun

10. We have to submit a multi-gun transfer form for "both" the buyer and seller

11. If you're off roster PPT buyer fails transfer, we will not return the firearm to you, we will send it in to be destroyed

*NOT a PPT but I've encountered 2 shops that have "played with or possibly shot" my firearm while it's in the 10 day wait



Good luck out there, there's lots of great FFL's but also several of bad ones

Matt

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

9. You cannot transfer more than 1 firearm per DROS, you need to have another DROS for the second gun

Been there. AO Sword in El Cajon. I was the buyer in a PPT. I purchased 2 firearms from the same guy, same day, same transaction. They charged me $94+fees for PPT. I said only one DROS charge was allowed. All 3 guys behind the counter said that's "illegal because CA DOJ requires each firearm to have a separate DROS form, therefore each firearm is charged a separate DROS+fees."
I ate the fees since I didn't want to waste a 1.5hr one way trip, and this was the seller's preferred FFL.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

I'll add to this thread with some "Weird or no PPT" issues I've encountered at FFL's in Southern CA from the boarder to LA. Some are unlawful per their Federal FFL guidelines but they stated this anyway. (for total transparency, I'll out any of the shops that told me this)



1. We will not PPT off roster pistols to civilians

2. We will not transfer legal AR pistols to anyone

3. We won't accept any lock unless it has a recipe withing 30 days

4. We won't accept any lock or safe affidavit, you have to purchase a lock from us to complete the transfer

5. We will not complete the transfer unless the "seller" provides a FSC

6. Wait over there, we only do PPT's after there are no sales at the counter

7. We are a range, we will only do PPT's after there are no range members in the store

8. You cannot bring a blocked mag into our store for the PPT

9. You cannot transfer more than 1 firearm per DROS, you need to have another DROS for the second gun

10. We have to submit a multi-gun transfer form for "both" the buyer and seller

11. If you're off roster PPT buyer fails transfer, we will not return the firearm to you, we will send it in to be destroyed

*NOT a PPT but I've encountered 2 shops that have "played with or possibly shot" my firearm while it's in the 10 day wait



Good luck out there, there's lots of great FFL's but also several of bad ones

Matt

Greetings from Nor-Cal. Can relate to 1, 2, and 9.

8) No blocked mags in store doesn’t make sense since it’s just ten round mags.

11) seems like they don’t like off roster guns in general. They are basically saying non-exempts shouldn’t be having them.

9) is for the stores that are trying to keep the ppt’s to one gun minimum; but they will say you need to come back another day for that. That’s just my experience up here. Some shops are more open in a way where they will allow up to 3 on one dros; but if somebody wants to do Grand-Pappy’s collection, please let us know ahead of time to schedule a time instead of walk-in for 20-50 guns on one dros.

1) is definitely at sportsman warehouse.

2) I’ve across mom and pop stores that have different policies on AR pistols. A couple hunting based stores have told me no before; they don’t want it on their books. Other stores, some will only transfer as a semi auto receiver, if it was originally single shot it needs to be dros as single shot even if it is currently semi, single shot to semi-auto is ok since it’s supposed to be dros in the current configuration anyways, fully assembled pistol is ok without brace, or fully assembled pistol with brace is ok.

The unknowledgeable was a shop saying those are AW’s, they don’t do those; even if it’s not banned by make, model, and is maglocked semi-auto or fixed 10 rounds.

I learned for exotic pistols; it’s best to call ahead of time to ask about their policy. Saves the headache experience that can happen in person like a reality show.

The worst experience I had was when it was ppt for an exotic (was not a AR or AK-pistol) not banned by name or model. I called ahead of time. Owner yelled over the phone, where did that pistol come from!?, is the seller a police officer?!, how did that come into this state?!, isn’t that an illegal AW?

I asked; “Does it matter whether they are a police officer or not; if they were, would you do it? Tier 1 LeO are not prohibited from ppt’ing an off roster pistol to a non-roster exempt that they see as clutter or simply because there is no return policy on firearms; occasional firearm transfers are allowed, not prohibited. How normal is it for someone to purchase something for Black Friday or Christmas and realize it’s not needed (simply clutter); but these are firearms that have no return policies. Would you give me a full refund if I bought a pistol from you, picked it up as delivered on dros, and wanted to return it for a full refund. Is it a yes? If they are not Leo; it’s not like someone can’t move in from out of state and later decide they don’t want the clutter.

I re-cited what the CA DOJ qualifies as an AW for semi-auto pistols; and how it does have those features and is not banned by name or model. His answer was; “I knew that. I don’t want it on my books though.”

Some shops I called wasn’t so sure but they wanted to know the configuration, that it wasn’t banned by make or model; they were then open to doing it since it was legal. It sounded like they never have had that kind of transfer before. They have only done AR-pistols or AK-pistols.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

They can't. They simply, for whatever reason, don't want money to be exchanged within the store whatsoever so they made up an excuse. Always been weird to me as I've done PPTs at that Ammo Bros before but whatever. Whenever I go to the Turner's a little down south in Kearny Mesa they never care if someone's counting out dollar bills on the counters while waiting for the paperwork to be done. Props to em

Havnt been there for ppt’s. But I usually just have it all counted out before entering the shop, inserted in an money envelope from the bank or white mailing envelope, hand it over to seller after inspecting firearm, and say “count it” or “double check it to make sure it’s all there”.

The shops that I have been to never minded me doing that. However, practicing some etiquette, I do at least buy some cleaning or lubricating supplies at the very least. Sometimes a lower reciever, pistol, rifle, accessories, or ammo if it catches my eye and the price is not bad. I also make sure to say thank you for helping and welcoming us with the ppt; on dros day and also pick up day.

I have not done any ppt in 2025 so far; but have in 2024, and prior to that.

Shops not liking the money being handed off in front of them are usually the ones that have became SALTY, seeing it as an insult or a big F-U to their face because that’s obviously money that could have been spent on our guns; but all they received out of facilitating the transaction was that measly $10. Seller didn’t spend their money on anything and just left. Buyer didn’t buy anything on ppt dros day or on pick up day. They spent x amount of time (should be 20 min max) on these people doing the paperwork for $10. We could have been selling “our guns”. We have inventory here to sell; we have better things to take care of which are customers that want to spend their money on “our guns”.

However, let us not forget that by shops welcoming ppt’s and not being so salty; it does bring in more exposure to the establishment. Different shops carry different brands of guns, ammo, accessories, gunsmithing, and cleaning/lubricating supplies. Just because they might have had many that don’t buy; doesn’t mean the next ppt meet-up party will not see something they like. If they are comfortable with the price; then there is a new sale. Even if they don’t; you ever heard of this shop? They are ppt friendly! A gem.

 

[Dvrjon]

Been there. AO Sword in El Cajon. I was the buyer in a PPT. I purchased 2 firearms from the same guy, same day, same transaction. They charged me $94+fees for PPT. I said only one DROS charge was allowed. All 3 guys behind the counter said that's "illegal because CA DOJ requires each firearm to have a separate DROS form, therefore each firearm is charged a separate DROS+fees."
I ate the fees since I didn't want to waste a 1.5hr one way trip, and this was the seller's preferred FFL.

AG DES Guide, Rev 4, Page 70:

 

[22plinker]

AG DES Guide, Rev 4, Page 70:
View attachment 31049

I thought there was an extra $5 or $10 dollar fee per additional firearms but I see your document states it clear as day.

Thanks for the info!

Matt

 

[Dvrjon]

I thought there was an extra $5 or $10 dollar fee per additional firearms but I see your document states it clear as day.

Thanks for the info!

Matt

DROS is $37.19. It would never be $5/$10.
There is a statutory $10 max fee for PPT and it is applied to each firearm. But it isn’t DROS. See CA PEN 28055.

 

[22plinker]

DROS is $37.19. It would never be $5/$10.
There is a statutory $10 max fee for PPT and it could be argued that each gun is a transfer and subject to the fee. But it isn’t DROS.

Ahh, got it that makes sense. I have paid the extra $10 before and felt that was fair.

Thanks again for all the legit info

Matt