what other company leaving California.

[HibikiR]

There's also the difference between taxing operations and taxing corporate income. Companies that move their HQ out can stop paying the latter but still pay the former if they have a component or two, like a bottling plant, still in state. The loss of corporate income tax is still substantial.

 

[Skilly]

I'm not sure splitting that hair matters when the community loses the jobs and tax base. ...and the water fees that pay for the immense water infrastructure installed to support the brewery and bottling facility. It is still a big impact to California.

That list didn't demonstrate a job loss rate directly related to 'leaving'. It certainly implies it, and we assume it, but didn't really stick the landing on that though.

 

[Skilly]

There's also the difference between taxing operations and taxing corporate income. Companies that move their HQ out can stop paying the latter but still pay the former if they have a component or two, like a bottling plant, still in state. The loss of corporate income tax is still substantial.

is it though?

In 2025, Tesla reported an effective U.S. federal income tax rate of 0% on nearly $5.7 billion of U.S. income. Really, what these companies do is push all of the tax burden on to the W2 taxpayer. So where ever they land, the corporate tax rate is not substantial by any means. Moreover, wanna know where they did pay taxes....CHINA. They paid over $1 billion in taxes to foreign governments, primarily China, where a large share of its global operations and profits are situated.

 

[ikeo1]

CAguns.

Where folks b*tch about living here and brag about leaving here.

I think you mean the other site with that one, most of the active folks there don't live in CA anymore.

We all generally like living here and live here, but have to do things outside the state. There's a difference where we're not just complaining but also organizing and move around.

 

[ikeo1]

is it though?

In 2025, Tesla reported an effective U.S. federal income tax rate of 0% on nearly $5.7 billion of U.S. income. Really, what these companies do is push all of the tax burden on to the W2 taxpayer. So where ever they land, the corporate tax rate is not substantial by any means.

It can be 0% federal but still quite high at a state level. The more money they make the more its offset. I'm learning this on the fly while I try to stay afloat. The big issue is the up to 13% tax on state income. If you're main nexus is in CA then you have to pay it, but once you move out and it become less of overall revenue, then you no longer have to pay it. IMO it's one of the big reasons to moved SpaceX out to Texas and acquired X and Xai. Once they moved out and have revenue that's not generated in CA like it was before boom 13% added to their bottom line doing less.

CA's response is the billionaires bill which kinda screws the state and people, it's like wtf.. but it's interesting to see how they shimmy around money to play by the rules.

 

[HibikiR]

is it though?

In 2025, Tesla reported an effective U.S. federal income tax rate of 0% on nearly $5.7 billion of U.S. income. Really, what these companies do is push all of the tax burden on to the W2 taxpayer. So where ever they land, the corporate tax rate is not substantial by any means. Moreover, wanna know where they did pay taxes....CHINA. They paid over $1 billion in taxes to foreign governments, primarily China, where a large share of its global operations and profits are situated.

Take your Tesla hate off and focus.

First: STATE tax, not FEDERAL. State-to-State HQ relocation doesn't have any bearing on FEDERAL, but does for STATE. So, to answer your question, yes, it is as I had posted earlier.

A common misconception is that Tesla pays no taxes. Like other U.S. corporations, Tesla does pay taxes—and substantial amounts.

Company disclosures show Tesla paid over $1.2 billion in cash taxes globally in 2025. In the United States, it pays hundreds of millions of dollars each year in state taxes, local property taxes, and payroll taxes tied to its large and growing domestic workforce.

The only line at zero is the Federal Corporate Income Tax. For a company expanding as rapidly as Tesla, this stems from significant domestic reinvestment in onshore supply chains that are vertically integrated within North America.

Second:

Federal tax policy is structured to encourage building in America, hiring domestically, and innovating at home. Tesla brings its federal liability to zero using well-established, lawful provisions:

First, accelerated depreciation. To promote domestic manufacturing, the code lets companies deduct the large costs of capital assets—such as production equipment and factory construction—faster than those assets wear out.

In recent years, Tesla has invested billions to expand Giga Texas, Semi Nevada, the new LFP plant, the Supercharger Network, scaling 4680 production, and soon, building out homegrown solar. By channeling profits back into U.S. infrastructure and jobs, taxable income declines.

Second, sizable R&D credits. Tesla is not only an automaker but also an AI and robotics company, underscored by its recent move of ending Model S and X production in favor of an Optimus production line.

Tesla has spent billions on research and development for FSD, Dojo, Optimus, and EV platforms. The federal government provides significant credits for domestic R&D to help maintain U.S. technological leadership.

Third, Net Operating Losses (NOLs). For much of its first decade, Tesla incurred heavy losses as it scaled, losing billions of dollars. Standard rules allow prior NOLs to be carried forward to offset later profits, enabling Tesla to apply those early losses against current earnings.

Why Doesn’t Tesla Pay Federal Taxes?

Why Doesn’t Tesla Pay Federal Taxes?Recent headlines intended to provoke outrage have spread across social media: “Tesla Pays Zero Federal Income Taxes on $5.7 Billion in US Profits”, “Tesla Doesn’t Pay Taxes”, “Tesla’s Tax-Free Profits”.After Tesla’s 2025 annual financial report, many outlets...

teslahubs.com

Other companies that used NOLs to lawfully reduce FEDERAL taxes include Meta, Alphabet, Walt Disney, and Amazon to name a few.

 

[ikeo1]

Take your Tesla hate off and focus.

First, I said STATE tax, not FEDERAL. So, to answer your question, yes, it is as I had posted earlier.


Second:

Why Doesn’t Tesla Pay Federal Taxes?

Why Doesn’t Tesla Pay Federal Taxes?Recent headlines intended to provoke outrage have spread across social media: “Tesla Pays Zero Federal Income Taxes on $5.7 Billion in US Profits”, “Tesla Doesn’t Pay Taxes”, “Tesla’s Tax-Free Profits”.After Tesla’s 2025 annual financial report, many outlets...

teslahubs.com

Other companies that used NOLs to avoid FEDERAL taxes include Meta, Alphabet, Walt Disney, and Amazon to name a few.

This is a good summary...

CAguns ops does a lot in R&D here as well with all the AI stuff for site management. Heavy upfront investment and hoping to build something here, its the way startups do it, but risky. We try and fail at a lot of things but continue to build, fail fast fix fast. It's a very common pattern in the valley. The different sites that are built are the result of our work..

richmondaction.com
ca2a.com
2agear.com
maclocalllm.com
caguns.net

And a few more web properties which brings me out to Texas and the East Coast. After losing my job, I had to hustle in the hopes that long term this all pans out because i don't wan to go back to corporate. Though AI money is another level.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I just bought my ticket to go to Texas. Depending on where you land, the people are quite nice and have nice little downtowns The only thing that's annoying is the long flat drives.

Yeah. The people were super cool. I was in Waxahachie ~1 hour outside of Dallas on the Extreme Tactics & Training Solutions range.

My biggest issue is the heat: reached over 100F a couple of days and was 97+ everyday. 1 guy (Texas native) got heat exhaustion the first few hours we were on the range and had to bow out of the class. And I’m over here complaining about USI in the summer.

I’ll just go in spring and fall instead.

I didn’t mind the driving but all the big chain restaurants and stores were also difficult. Luckily there was a health food store nearby where I stayed so I was able to get some good quality food. I’m spoiled when it comes to good food in the Bay Area.

 

[dirty_monkey]

You'd be surprised how few advertisers there are in California, while complaining about California. I'm just saying, don't be like a Democrat, but you're welcome if you are a Democrat or a Republican. I would just appreciate less condescending remarks to users sometimes. You'll notice "Contributor" badges sprinkled around users. That's from users offering genuine unbiased help to other members. It is a free badge and comes with its own upgrades. Perhaps you're unaware but it's slow during this time of year, ads dropped by 40%. and as mentioned fill rate is ~45% right now. So nearly 5.5 ads is my own CA2A.com ads or local FFL ads to supplement this site. This site is banned from several places. There's a reason 2Agear.com and CA2A.com are up. A community has to sustain itself, the big advertisers are akin to the federal subsidies and has heavy swings. The local and you guys are the state. Content is great but has to be sustainable overall. I haven't really pushed the other sites yet because they are in the final stages of feedback/testing. Just a few test posts here and there, looking for nuggets of feedback.

I do have to start asking a little more once everything is setup because it is tough, but a lot of what we make is circulated back into the community itself like GridIron. That's effectively a month of $3-5 memberships. If you saw my taxes, I make less than a cashier working at McDonalds. Don't get me wrong, should this work, then it would be great and we could sponsor all the matches in Cali like Grid Iron, that's the goal with R66/Sac Valley as the next venues. So don't take it the wrong way, we gotta keep building up because its really tough for anything 2A here.

Our boy @dirty_monkey , good luck out there. The site is free so you can buy or sell at a discount to stores and connect with people. When I lost my job, I had to sell of some stuff and couldn't so this place came up.

Thanks, Its just a matter of time.

 

[dirty_monkey]

Florida is flatter than texas.

 

[Skilly]

It can be 0% federal but still quite high at a state level. The more money they make the more its offset. I'm learning this on the fly while I try to stay afloat. The big issue is the up to 13% tax on state income. If you're main nexus is in CA then you have to pay it, but once you move out and it become less of overall revenue, then you no longer have to pay it. IMO it's one of the big reasons to moved SpaceX out to Texas and acquired X and Xai. Once they moved out and have revenue that's not generated in CA like it was before boom 13% added to their bottom line doing less.

CA's response is the billionaires bill which kinda screws the state and people, it's like wtf.. but it's interesting to see how they shimmy around money to play by the rules.

In Tesla's case across all of their tax liability for that year most went to foreign sources; the majority being China. Their state tax exposure domestically was also wiped almost clean and on just over $5.7B in revenue they paid $26M across ALL of the states that they operate in...thats 0.04%. They paid >$1B to foreign sources. Should also probably point out that the CA tax payer gave them roughly $3.5B in subsidies to float the company while they were here.

I only point this out to say, the talking point about companies leaving the state, are just false flags. We are all paying corporate welfare and pointing to the wrong thing to be upset at.

Cept of course, if we are talking about infringement on our gun rights. In that case, carry on.

 

[HibikiR]

Tesla paid $86 million of $1.2 billion in total, global taxes to California in 2025, which is 7%, not 0.04%
SOURCE LINK: Tesla Doc

However, as an employer, Tesla's downstream effects are not to be taken lightly.
SOURCE LINK: USPTO Doc (Oct 2022)

 

[phred]

Florida is flatter than texas.

something like 345 feet max is the highest point in Florida. Grew up there on an island with Highest point at 13. Most of it was under water during the recent hurricane Ian. Not going back.

 

[Skilly]

Tesla paid $86 million of $1.2 billion in total, global taxes to California in 2025, which is 7%, not 0.04%
Tesla Doc

However, as an employer, Tesla's downstream effects are not to be taken lightly.
USPTO Doc (Oct 2022)

Dude, they actually paid ~$1.4B... AGAIN most of it to other countries and the lion's share to China. Love to see the source to verify Tesla paid $86M - They don't split taxes by state in their 10K, so you wont see what they paid to CA there.

For fun, let's suppose you are right (looking forward to your source information - its possible) that would be $86M against $5.7B in revenue, or a tax rate of 1.5%. Show me ANY W2 that has a effective tax rate that nets that where someone didn't go to jail?

According to their 10K, they paid is $26M in state taxes for that year, or 0.04% of income. As for Tesla's "downstream effects" - explain. The 2024 layoffs were global, but the majority was not CA. They pay no tax, they have grown their presence since their 'departure' and they recently moved Engineering and AI back to Palo Alto for their HQ. So besides the fact you don't like me picking Tesla as a (very very easy) example, exactly is the point you are trying to make? I shouldnt forget, there's also that $3.5B in subsidy that CA paid while they were here.

The theme that these departure moves are evidence of the state falling apart dont pass a math test; $26M or $86M regardless.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

something like 345 feet max is the highest point in Florida. Grew up there on an island with Highest point at 13. Most of it was under water during the recent hurricane Ian. Not going back.

Lived in Clearwater through the 80’s, great place back in the day but would never go back now.

 

[ikeo1]

Dude, they actually paid ~$1.4B... AGAIN most of it to other countries and the lion's share to China. Love to see the source to verify Tesla paid $86M - They don't split taxes by state in their 10K, so you wont see what they paid to CA there.

For fun, let's suppose you are right (looking forward to your source information - its possible) that would be $86M against $5.7B in revenue, or a tax rate of 1.5%. Show me ANY W2 that has a effective tax rate that nets that where someone didn't go to jail?

According to their 10K, they paid is $26M in state taxes for that year, or 0.04% of income. As for Tesla's "downstream effects" - explain. The 2024 layoffs were global, but the majority was not CA. They pay no tax, they have grown their presence since their 'departure' and they recently moved Engineering and AI back to Palo Alto for their HQ. So besides the fact you don't like me picking Tesla as a (very very easy) example, exactly is the point you are trying to make? I shouldnt forget, there's also that $3.5B in subsidy that CA paid while they were here.

The theme that these departure moves are evidence of the state falling apart dont pass a math test; $26M or $86M regardless.

Tesla is quite unique in their tax structure. It’s quite impressive but the guys and the founders fund do the same things, flock, palantir, etc. selective outrage bro.

He’s just saying what you’re saying but different. They pay taxes but it’s offset by the govt and then we all have to pay more taxes, but even though they don’t pay as much taxes they still pay payroll taxes and not corporate tax because it’s subsidized by w2. Kinda like how Walmart can pay people just enough to be below poverty so they can qualify for government subsidy.

 

[HibikiR]

Dude, they actually paid ~$1.4B... AGAIN most of it to other countries and the lion's share to China. Love to see the source to verify Tesla paid $86M - They don't split taxes by state in their 10K, so you wont see what they paid to CA there.

For fun, let's suppose you are right (looking forward to your source information - its possible) that would be $86M against $5.7B in revenue, or a tax rate of 1.5%. Show me ANY W2 that has a effective tax rate that nets that where someone didn't go to jail?

According to their 10K, they paid is $26M in state taxes for that year, or 0.04% of income. As for Tesla's "downstream effects" - explain. The 2024 layoffs were global, but the majority was not CA. They pay no tax, they have grown their presence since their 'departure' and they recently moved Engineering and AI back to Palo Alto for their HQ. So besides the fact you don't like me picking Tesla as a (very very easy) example, exactly is the point you are trying to make? I shouldnt forget, there's also that $3.5B in subsidy that CA paid while they were here.

The theme that these departure moves are evidence of the state falling apart dont pass a math test; $26M or $86M regardless.

"Looking forward to your source information", Are you seriously telling me that you didn't notice the link in the post?

Look at the first page, read every word. Look at page 86, read every word.

You are either parroting information from some source with an agenda and bias, or you're pulling numbers out of an orifice.

 

[Skilly]

Tesla is quite unique in their tax structure. It’s quite impressive but the guys and the founders fund do the same things, flock, palantir, etc. selective outrage bro.

He’s just saying what you’re saying but different. They pay taxes but it’s offset by the govt and then we all have to pay more taxes, but even though they don’t pay as much taxes they still pay payroll taxes and not corporate tax because it’s subsidized by w2. Kinda like how Walmart can pay people just enough to be below poverty so they can qualify for government subsidy.

This makes sense, funny how a couple of words, or the delivery of the message online and BAM - right to talking past each other.

My only added point to that, is that most of these companies don't really leave CA; its just a sound byte to create divide, apparently even when we agree on that and a third party has to step in and point that out!

 

[Skilly]

"Looking forward to your source information", Are you seriously telling me that you didn't notice the link in the post?

Look at the first page, read every word. Look at page 86, read every word.

You are either parroting information from some source with an agenda and bias, or you're pulling numbers out of an orifice.

Yeah, TBH, I missed the link and Ill own it. $86M is right there (granted its on page 86!). I'm not an accountant but I've read a few 10Ks. As it turns out 2025 is the first year state taxes are disclosed if they meet a certain threshold. Apologies!! That said, the principals in what I am sharing seem to hold true.

These companies really don't pay taxes close to what we would think and the impact when they 'move' out seems to have little effect on their footprint in the state, or tax revenues from the company itself. Like Ikeo said, Tesla is unique and I doubt there would be an electric car market, let along the industry behind it, without them. But that came at a cost to CA with those subsidies, which we all paid for.

The OP thread was really grounded in 'look at all of these companies moving out of the state', and I don't agree it tells us much of anything but ends up being a partisan talking point.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

4th largest economy and CA doesnt take in nearly enough tax revenue for all the causes Democrats want to spend it on. Taxes have to be raised by a LOT, on EVERYONE, not just billionaires. At some point people need to realize, CA could be the largest economy in the world with the highest taxes in the world and it will NEVER BE ENOUGH for Democrats. So bragging about how large our economy is, pretending there is no governance problem, is actually very damning. And not the argument most "artists" think it is. If we cant make it work now with the 4th largest economy, we are doing something VERY WRONG. And raising taxes most likely isnt the answer. Its most likely part of the problem.