Your guns have no value

[Boomhauer]

Accumulating a lot of guns is a bad idea imo as at some point you have to go thru the California’s gun gymnastics to sell them.

I picked up a LCP max at turners today and left with a headache! As part of that ticket I bought two different types of ammo and each type needed its own dros sheet. I left with multiple sheets of paper “for my records” he said.

I have a few more guns to sell this year and hopefully nothing new catches my eye!

Turners definitely doesn’t care about the trees lol. I guess they are just trying to do the most to cover their ass. I went to a LGS yesterday to do a ppt and was in n out in under 15 minutes with one sheet of paper.

 

[SDDAVE56]

I've done four PPT's at Poway Weapons and Gear over several years. Never had an issue. Some times you have to wait a bit, but thats ok.

 

[Scubabugdiver]

I've done four PPT's at Poway Weapons and Gear over several years. Never had an issue. Some times you have to wait a bit, but thats ok.

It’s best to go during the week. Usually, I can walk right up to the counter. Not to bring Covid, I saw the line go out the door.

 

[NedSled]

So I've been looking at getting rid of some old guns, ones I no longer need, or will never shoot again.

I know we're in the "Trump Slump" (no fear of new federal gun laws, so no demand, causing a market glut and low prices). But it's worse than that.

I brought a bunch of guns into a Petaluma gun store to see if they were interested in any. They weren't. They didn't want any of the pistols, at any cost. The guy said, "They don't have optics cuts, so I couldn't sell any of them." The stupid optics craze on pistols is so prevalent now that guns without them literally have zero value. (Chock up one more reason I fracking hate them.)

Rifles, they'd offer about 10% of their value. (on all but one, which was worth about 40%)

So what about selling to private parties? Well, because this is California we have to do a PPT (private party transfer, at an FFL). And while the state mandates that FFLs do PPTs, they don't let them charge more than $10 for it, so it's a guaranteed money loser for them, as they have to pay an employee to spend at least half an hour doing paperwork. As a result, the gun stores say they do PPTs, but they do everything they can to make you just go the frack away. I asked at a gun store in Petaluma, and the guy said, by appointment only, and on Fridays only, and they are currently booked up more than 2 months out. That's a hard no without saying so. So you can't even give a gun away right now. Crazy.

So that gun collection you were going to leave to your heirs? If they aren't a gun nut like you, it's just a burden, worse than all your other crap that they need to hire a dumpster for. They'll have to bring it all to a police station for destruction. It's a sad state of affairs.

I've heard there are some charities in other states that take guns. I will have to investigate that.

Ummmm... it's been my experience here in NorCal (which, granted, is not a HUGE sample from which to draw conclusions), that brick and mortar gun stores just suck.

I have no plans to buy anymore guns, but if I do, it's gonna be how I bought the last ones... either from BassPro where guns are pretty much the same thing as tent-pegs, or online and shipped to an FFL.

Just start posting them online and you'll get buyers. SOMEONE wants what you got.

Just keep in mind... that AR15 with high end parts that you lovingly created piece by piece... is just an AR15 to quite a few people, so don't be surprised when your strategy of adding up the component costs and charging that amount does not work. < Not saying that applies to YOU OP, but conceptually it could.

 

[Smittty]

Ummmm... it's been my experience here in NorCal (which, granted, is not a HUGE sample from which to draw conclusions), that brick and mortar gun stores just suck.

I have no plans to buy anymore guns, but if I do, it's gonna be how I bought the last ones... either from BassPro where guns are pretty much the same thing as tent-pegs, or online and shipped to an FFL.

Just start posting them online and you'll get buyers. SOMEONE wants what you got.

Just keep in mind... that AR15 with high end parts that you lovingly created piece by piece... is just an AR15 to quite a few people, so don't be surprised when your strategy of adding up the component costs and charging that amount does not work. < Not saying that applies to YOU OP, but conceptually it could.

This is true^^^.

The value is in the gun, not the accessories and not in the optic, and high-end parts are rarely valued more than basic grade parts.

Selling strategy sometimes includes extra's and sometimes you need to strip off the extras and sell them separate or ebay them.

 

[psun786]

Before California paused the microstamping requirement, buyers had very limited choices on the roster. As a result, many people relied on the used marketplace to purchase off-roster firearms. The restricted supply created a market where those models held strong value.

Now, with new models gradually being added to the roster, buyers have more options, which reduces overall demand and interest in any single model.

I used to be willing to pay twice MSRP for a popular off-roster firearm. Not anymore. There’s now a real possibility that a given model will eventually be added to the roster—and with more choices available overall, it just doesn’t make sense to pay that kind of premium.

 

[Smittty]

Before California paused the microstamping requirement, buyers had very limited choices on the roster. As a result, many people relied on the used marketplace to purchase off-roster firearms. The restricted supply created a market where those models held strong value.

Now, with new models gradually being added to the roster, buyers have more options, which reduces overall demand and interest in any single model.

I used to be willing to pay twice MSRP for a popular off-roster firearm. Not anymore. There’s now a real possibility that a given model will eventually be added to the roster—and with more choices available overall, it just doesn’t make sense to pay that kind of premium.

The fear of missing out is definitely over.

We lost Glock and that void has been filled almost seamlessly with other brands. The land of plenty!

 

[Drivedabizness]

Yes. The gun store I mention just lost all future business from me. But I bet most will be similarly terrible.

It's a drive but try Ares in Vacaville. They did a PPT for me recently and couldn't have been mmore helpful

 

[MB1111]

If you list your guns here at 75% of MSRP they will sell (assuming they are in good shape and from a reputable brand). Most guns don't appreciate but you can pretty reliably get that much back.

 

[fx1094]

So I've been looking at getting rid of some old guns, ones I no longer need, or will never shoot again.

I know we're in the "Trump Slump" (no fear of new federal gun laws, so no demand, causing a market glut and low prices). But it's worse than that.

I brought a bunch of guns into a Petaluma gun store to see if they were interested in any. They weren't. They didn't want any of the pistols, at any cost. The guy said, "They don't have optics cuts, so I couldn't sell any of them." The stupid optics craze on pistols is so prevalent now that guns without them literally have zero value. (Chock up one more reason I fracking hate them.)

Rifles, they'd offer about 10% of their value. (on all but one, which was worth about 40%)

So what about selling to private parties? Well, because this is California we have to do a PPT (private party transfer, at an FFL). And while the state mandates that FFLs do PPTs, they don't let them charge more than $10 for it, so it's a guaranteed money loser for them, as they have to pay an employee to spend at least half an hour doing paperwork. As a result, the gun stores say they do PPTs, but they do everything they can to make you just go the frack away. I asked at a gun store in Petaluma, and the guy said, by appointment only, and on Fridays only, and they are currently booked up more than 2 months out. That's a hard no without saying so. So you can't even give a gun away right now. Crazy.

So that gun collection you were going to leave to your heirs? If they aren't a gun nut like you, it's just a burden, worse than all your other crap that they need to hire a dumpster for. They'll have to bring it all to a police station for destruction. It's a sad state of affairs.

I've heard there are some charities in other states that take guns. I will have to investigate that.

Ehh... down here in LA there are about 10 stores doing a dozen PPTs a day, every day. I've sold at least 9 handguns I didn't want anymore that way, without optic cuts, and bought a few the same way. I don't see a hard 'no' any way you look at it. Maybe you just need to drive farther.

 

[ef9boy88]

I get the sentiment but the less profitable an activity is for a business the less likely that business is to engage in it. PPTs are no different and gun stores are no different.

Actually it's very different. They are legally required to engage in the activity just as we are. Also when this law was being talked about the FFLs lobbied for it because they saw dollar signs. Now they want to cry foul because its not worth the $10 to them.

 

[Mudcamper]

If you list your guns here at 75% of MSRP they will sell (assuming they are in good shape and from a reputable brand). Most guns don't appreciate but you can pretty reliably get that much back.

I listed most of the pistols at $200, 50% of msrp or less, especially if you consider the double tax on regular purchases. But as I said (I guess not clearly) the issue then became the inability to get PPTs done.

 

[Skilly]

For sure, irons are fine and if you train enough you can get fast and accurate. Red dots are just easier due to the nature of a single dot versus having to align the front sight with the rear.

Can someone be faster and shoot better with irons than someone with a red dotwith less training, sure but a person will most certainly be faster with a red dot with the proper amount of training versus irons.

There definitely is a learning curve with dots coming from irons which I think can discourage some to say dots aren’t worth it.

The training up of someone to reliably use red dots is real. Searching for a dot in a life/death situation will not end well. And, reliably finding that red dot on a draw from holster with timing takes a lot of training; far less so if you are a shooter with a highly reliable draw and grip, but training nonetheless. In that it will reveal other issues while you figure it out (like an inconsistent grip etc). Hell, there are still people out there that 'tea cup'.

Being a car guy, it feels like the conversation around a 3-pedal car vs double clutch paddle shifts. There is not a person on the planet that can out perform the new tech vs the old tech but there are still people that will insist that the old stuff is superior and what they want. Better in every way but the comfort to adopt it just isnt there.

 

[jkcerda]

So I've been looking at getting rid of some old guns, ones I no longer need, or will never shoot again.

I know we're in the "Trump Slump" (no fear of new federal gun laws, so no demand, causing a market glut and low prices). But it's worse than that.

I brought a bunch of guns into a Petaluma gun store to see if they were interested in any. They weren't. They didn't want any of the pistols, at any cost. The guy said, "They don't have optics cuts, so I couldn't sell any of them." The stupid optics craze on pistols is so prevalent now that guns without them literally have zero value. (Chock up one more reason I fracking hate them.)

Rifles, they'd offer about 10% of their value. (on all but one, which was worth about 40%)

So what about selling to private parties? Well, because this is California we have to do a PPT (private party transfer, at an FFL). And while the state mandates that FFLs do PPTs, they don't let them charge more than $10 for it, so it's a guaranteed money loser for them, as they have to pay an employee to spend at least half an hour doing paperwork. As a result, the gun stores say they do PPTs, but they do everything they can to make you just go the frack away. I asked at a gun store in Petaluma, and the guy said, by appointment only, and on Fridays only, and they are currently booked up more than 2 months out. That's a hard no without saying so. So you can't even give a gun away right now. Crazy.

So that gun collection you were going to leave to your heirs? If they aren't a gun nut like you, it's just a burden, worse than all your other crap that they need to hire a dumpster for. They'll have to bring it all to a police station for destruction. It's a sad state of affairs.

I've heard there are some charities in other states that take guns. I will have to investigate that.

list of guns, Ill go 20-30%...............

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Being a car guy, it feels like the conversation around a 3-pedal car vs double clutch paddle shifts. There is not a person on the planet that can out perform the new tech vs the old tech but there are still people that will insist that the old stuff is superior and what they want. Better in every way but the comfort to adopt it just isnt there.

We can also apply this denialism to the newest tech, the highest-performing EVs. One gear, 100% torque from zero, unaffected by air density. Whole new paradigm. I know a lot of "car guys" hate EVs for all the reasons we've heard, but as a car and sportbike guy myself the performance is undeniable. I cut my teeth on ICE cars though, just like all of us approaching 60 or older.

 

[Skilly]

We can also apply this denialism to the newest tech, the highest-performing EVs. One gear, 100% torque from zero, unaffected by air density. Whole new paradigm. I know a lot of "car guys" hate EVs for all the reasons we've heard, but as a car and sportbike guy myself the performance is undeniable. I cut my teeth on ICE cars though, just like all of us approaching 60 or older.

EVs dont deliver on the promise like my previous example. Unfortunately there is a lot of downside to EVs so not nearly as comparable. Nice try tho!

Im not a purist - will give anything a try, and while you are correct in a straight line performance out of the hole they are better, and you could argue maintenance (although not really if you adhere to mfg maintenance schedules). Aside from that, they fall short almost everywhere else.

Braking, cornering & general chassis dynamics, range, fit & finish (esp Tesla). Ive had Porsche, Tesla, Audi and even the GM EV Hummer. Unlike the double clutch, they all fall woefully short of delivering on their promise.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

EVs dont deliver on the promise like my previous example. Unfortunately there is a lot of downside to EVs so not nearly as comparable. Nice try tho!

Im not a purist - will give anything a try, and while you are correct in a straight line performance out of the hole they are better, and you could argue maintenance (although not really if you adhere to mfg maintenance schedules). Aside from that, they fall short almost everywhere else.

Braking, cornering & general chassis dynamics, range, fit & finish (esp Tesla). Ive had Porsche, Tesla, Audi and even the GM EV Hummer. Unlike the double clutch, they all fall woefully short of delivering on their promise.

Check how EVs performed at Pike's Peak. Tesla's fit and finish is way better than the old days, but people keep repeating this meme.

From the web (with race footage on YouTube);

"Tesla has achieved significant success at the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb, with modified Model S Plaid and Model 3 vehicles setting records and winning classes. Key highlights include the "Dark Helmet" Model S Plaid by Unplugged Performance setting a new modified EV record in 2023 with a 9:54.901 time and Blake Fuller's 2021 record-setting run in a Model S Plaid."

Of course ICE can't compete with an EV for a hill climb. EVs don't "breathe", and they don't care about low air-density. This is why NASA was able to use an EV (Lunar Rover) for three moon missions.

If we're only talking performance, the numbers hold the truth. EVs destroy all comers on the dragstrip but for some extremely expensive built-out cars, and this includes high-end sportbikes such as the Kawasaki ZX-10R or Hayabusa. As a motorcycle-rider for 20 years, motorcycles are light and quick, but they suffer with a lack of traction and are aerodynamically inferior to cars at the top end. Plus, without a quickshifter an EV will destroy most bikes off the line.

However, EVs do weigh a whole lot more than ICE cars, but battery tech is still new (compared to ICE motors) and it will continue to evolve with power density with less mass. We'll see if they make any progress on solid-state batteries. EV batteries also can't cope with longer races compared to ICE (battery depletion) and brakes can overheat trying to slow all of that quick-moving mass without some aftermarket attention, but most race cars get a lot of aftermarket fettling.

The proof is in the pudding, though I understand a lot of car guys hate the sterile feel of an EV or miss the noise of ICE, but that doesn't change the facts on the ground or at the track. I like the relative silence of an EV compared to the racket a race car makes, and really if you haven't driven one you owe it to yourself to try it. It'll change your paradigm.

Renting one from Turo (from a NASA rocket scientist, no less) is what changed my mind forever. I'm never going back to ICE.

 

[Skilly]

"Tesla has achieved significant success at the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb, with modified Model S Plaid and Model 3 vehicles setting records and winning classes. Key highlights include the "Dark Helmet" Model S Plaid by Unplugged Performance setting a new modified EV record in 2023 with a 9:54.901 time and Blake Fuller's 2021 record-setting run in a Model S Plaid."

We've hijacked the thread so I will yield back after this comment.

Note the word "modified" in that achievement. Throw enough money and engineering at something and you can get it to do cool stuff. Unplugged Performance work on that Model S probably cost $50K plus (likely more)! Outa the box though, they suck wind in all of the areas I mentioned. Yes, its relatively new tech but its not better; at best its an alternative for some. They just aren't there yet.

They are notable, but not comparable.

Tying it back to the thread and where we were, red dots have become mainstream and as a result the OP is taking a hit on his inventory that don't have slide cuts. Sure, a buyer can have one machined, but at that point, what is the point? The cost outweighs things out there with the feature already included. If youre a red dot user, you dont buy those guns.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

We've hijacked the thread so I will yield back after this comment.

Note the word "modified" in that achievement. Throw enough money and engineering at something and you can get it to do cool stuff. Unplugged Performance work on that Model S probably cost $50K plus (likely more)! Outa the box though, they suck wind in all of the areas I mentioned. Yes, its relatively new tech but its not better; at best its an alternative for some. They just aren't there yet.

They are notable, but not comparable.

Tying it back to the thread and where we were, red dots have become mainstream and as a result the OP is taking a hit on his inventory that don't have slide cuts. Sure, a buyer can have one machined, but at that point, what is the point? The cost outweighs things out there with the feature already included. If youre a red dot user, you dont buy those guns.

Your objection is easily solved, just race stock for stock. EV performance is mind-blowing, even with the inherent mass of EV batteries. Even better, match budget for budget. All race cars are built up, and there's no mystery there. Anyway you're right, threadjacked. Back to the original topic.

You still haven't mentioned if you've ever driven an EV, and that's an important step in understanding what you're arguing against.

I don't think I will add an optic to the Staccato HD C3.6. Seems better to keep a carry gun small.

 

[ef9boy88]

Your objection is easily solved, just race stock for stock. EV performance is mind-blowing, even with the inherent mass of EV batteries. Even better, match budget for budget. All race cars are built up, and there's no mystery there. Anyway you're right, threadjacked. Back to the original topic.

You still haven't mentioned if you've ever driven an EV, and that's an important step in understanding what you're arguing against.

I don't think I will add an optic to the Staccato HD C3.6. Seems better to keep a carry gun small.

Drove a Volt a bit. Liked it, but it was the plug in hybrid, to me that's the way to go. As far as the performance argument they've been racing EVs for 40 years. I notice we're talking about the performance of $100K+ EVs part of what I enjoyed was showing up to the track with a 12.2 second car that cost me $4K all in. For $100K+ I'd hope that they're amazing.