Your guns have no value

[Skilly]

Your objection is easily solved, just race stock for stock. EV performance is mind-blowing, even with the inherent mass of EV batteries. Even better, match budget for budget. All race cars are built up, and there's no mystery there. Anyway you're right, threadjacked. Back to the original topic.

You still haven't mentioned if you've ever driven an EV, and that's an important step in understanding what you're arguing against.

I don't think I will add an optic to the Staccato HD C3.6. Seems better to keep a carry gun small.

Love that you said race. Ill take that bet. To make it a real race, how many corners and how many laps?....

 

[Skilly]

Drove a Volt a bit. Liked it, but it was the plug in hybrid, to me that's the way to go. As far as the performance argument they've been racing EVs for 40 years. I notice we're talking about the performance of $100K+ EVs part of what I enjoyed was showing up to the track with a 12.2 second car that cost me $4K all in. For $100K+ I'd hope that they're amazing.

Im driving the hybrid M5. I agree - still cant understand why they havent taken hybrid to diesel trucks and SUVs - trains have been using it for years. Talk about the best of both worlds.

 

[hoangjm]

Definitely the gun store problem! I have done both gun transfer types here in Ventura county with no issues. They charged about $120 for FFL tho. Or PPT for $90

 

[trunkjunk4321]

Actually it's very different. They are legally required to engage in the activity just as we are. Also when this law was being talked about the FFLs lobbied for it because they saw dollar signs. Now they want to cry foul because its not worth the $10 to them.

Yes but my point is not whether or not LGS are legally required to perform PPTs but rather whether LGS are economically incentivized to do so. If we as gun enthusiasts want more and better PPT availability it behooves us to endeavor to make it more profitable for LGS. The most straightforward way to do that is to just buy something when doing a PPT - or we can all just continue to complain about LGS not wanting to do PPT and wonder why that is. The choice is yours.

 

[Deadcoyote]

So I've been looking at getting rid of some old guns, ones I no longer need, or will never shoot again.

I know we're in the "Trump Slump" (no fear of new federal gun laws, so no demand, causing a market glut and low prices). But it's worse than that.

I brought a bunch of guns into a Petaluma gun store to see if they were interested in any. They weren't. They didn't want any of the pistols, at any cost. The guy said, "They don't have optics cuts, so I couldn't sell any of them." The stupid optics craze on pistols is so prevalent now that guns without them literally have zero value. (Chock up one more reason I fracking hate them.)

Rifles, they'd offer about 10% of their value. (on all but one, which was worth about 40%)

So what about selling to private parties? Well, because this is California we have to do a PPT (private party transfer, at an FFL). And while the state mandates that FFLs do PPTs, they don't let them charge more than $10 for it, so it's a guaranteed money loser for them, as they have to pay an employee to spend at least half an hour doing paperwork. As a result, the gun stores say they do PPTs, but they do everything they can to make you just go the frack away. I asked at a gun store in Petaluma, and the guy said, by appointment only, and on Fridays only, and they are currently booked up more than 2 months out. That's a hard no without saying so. So you can't even give a gun away right now. Crazy.

So that gun collection you were going to leave to your heirs? If they aren't a gun nut like you, it's just a burden, worse than all your other crap that they need to hire a dumpster for. They'll have to bring it all to a police station for destruction. It's a sad state of affairs.

I've heard there are some charities in other states that take guns. I will have to investigate that.

If you have a nice deer rifle in .308 I have a son graduating high school in a while and I’m shopping.

 

[Deleted member 6005]

Yes but my point is not whether or not LGS are legally required to perform PPTs but rather whether LGS are economically incentivized to do so. If we as gun enthusiasts want more and better PPT availability it behooves us to endeavor to make it more profitable for LGS. The most straightforward way to do that is to just buy something when doing a PPT - or we can all just continue to complain about LGS not wanting to do PPT and wonder why that is. The choice is yours.

As you said, they are legally required to do it. Nothing else matters. They have to do it.

I'm not against "making them feel better, " that's entirely your choice. I also do my part to make them feel better, but it shouldn't be expected.

 

[datdotty]

Bay Area gun stores are like that.

 

[jamesbarber1989]

Ditto. And, if I'm not mistaken, isn't the PPT fee around $47?
I always buy 1,000 rounds of ammo from the FFL when doing a PPT to show my thanks.

i try to do the same as long as they dont mark up their ammo insanely

 

[ef9boy88]

Yes but my point is not whether or not LGS are legally required to perform PPTs but rather whether LGS are economically incentivized to do so. If we as gun enthusiasts want more and better PPT availability it behooves us to endeavor to make it more profitable for LGS. The most straightforward way to do that is to just buy something when doing a PPT - or we can all just continue to complain about LGS not wanting to do PPT and wonder why that is. The choice is yours.

The owners at my favorite local FFL know me by name. I do PPTs, out of states transfers and buy stuff from their inventory. Because they're cool about the PPT stuff I always recommend them for everything, and if I want a particular gun I look to them first. They don't even charge a whole lot for out of state transfers.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Drove a Volt a bit. Liked it, but it was the plug in hybrid, to me that's the way to go. As far as the performance argument they've been racing EVs for 40 years. I notice we're talking about the performance of $100K+ EVs part of what I enjoyed was showing up to the track with a 12.2 second car that cost me $4K all in. For $100K+ I'd hope that they're amazing.

Hybrids are the worst of all worlds, and by this admission you have not driven a pure EV and certainly not the highest-performance EV.

My Model 3 Performance is 55k, has all-wheel drive, gets to 60 in under 3 seconds, and it drives itself.

It's not just fancy cruise control or lane-keeping, it literally drives itself from point A to B with no intervention, and this now includes parking. Granted, FSD is a separate cost, outright purchase or monthly subscription.

If you haven't driven an EV you're just not operating from a point of knowledge, and if you haven't witnessed Tesla's FSD then you have no idea how good it is in its latest iteration.

The key here is to operate from evidence and first-princples and not hearsay and false narratives.

Drive a real EV (not a hybrid gas car with a tiny battery) and see for yourself.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Im driving the hybrid M5. I agree - still cant understand why they havent taken hybrid to diesel trucks and SUVs - trains have been using it for years. Talk about the best of both worlds.

The hybrid is the worst of both worlds. Why do you need fuel? EV's work for most people who don't live in ultra remote areas. Why do you need all those extra moving parts and points of failure and all that extra complexity?

Hybrids are basically a VHS/DVD combo machine or ISDN. Interim tech.

 

[ronzkie21]

That's why this app was made. Sell them yourself.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Love that you said race. Ill take that bet. To make it a real race, how many corners and how many laps?....

This has been done numerous times. Just check the web or contact someone willing to race their EV against whatever you're bringing. Remember, stock for stock for the same cost.

If you're interested in statistics, there's no mystery here.

The point is, people have been racing EVs for years to test them, and for 55k you're not going to find a stock car that beats a Model 3 Performance in the real world, even with turns. That crazy electric acceleration is not just for stoplights, it powers out of turns like nobody's business.

A battery under the chassis is also better weight distribution than a heavy lump at the front of the car, and safer in an accident too.

Again we're talking about the state of automotive tech, facts, and statistics.

 

[p--and--p]

well its like technology.. What is a 10 year old computer worth? Not 1% of the value it was sold for. New tech comes out (optic cuts and better grips) that make some of the old guns obsolete.
The high end 2011 world things are not worthless, I've seen guns sell for double purchase price where the original price was close to 10k. So its your old guns that just aren't wanted unfortunately... Most of the new on roster guns like the P365 and S&W etc.. just have overtaken alot of the stuff that was the roster list for years. My friend can't sell his springfield XD for $100, because yea, it sucks compared to whats available now.

 

[ef9boy88]

I'm glad you love your car so much, the truth of the matter is the Plug In Bolt is completely powered by electricity, the "engine" is a generator and nothing more. That said I don't own one because it just wont do what I want to do with my vehicle. That's a lot of fancy stuff it can do, but I enjoy driving and don't need my car doing all that, I've parallel parked things a lot of people can't even imagine driving.

 

[Sloat]

My friend can't sell his springfield XD for $100, because yea, it sucks compared to whats available now.

What? This forum has tons of sold listings for the XD for $3-500. I assume most of the higher end ones took a lower offer, but I think $300 is definitely attainable.

Classifieds

Marketplace

caguns.net

If he's near the East Bay, I'll give him $100 no problem.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I'm glad you love your car so much, the truth of the matter is the Plug In Bolt is completely powered by electricity, the "engine" is a generator and nothing more. That said I don't own one because it just wont do what I want to do with my vehicle. That's a lot of fancy stuff it can do, but I enjoy driving and don't need my car doing all that, I've parallel parked things a lot of people can't even imagine driving.

Just to be clear, hybrids are so-named because they include internal combustion engines. The term "EV" is for cars which are all electric, no ICE (internal combustion engine) at all. Either way, hybrids still have all of the complexity of a gas engine and their parasitic power loss, and many more points of failure. EVs are simple, with far less parasitic power loss and far fewer moving parts. This is a clear advantage over hybrids.

The Japanese manufacturers have been touting hybrids because they're late to the EV game, but eventually they'll be all-EV too. I say this as someone who's driven Japanese cars most of his life, so I'm not a hater. My first EV was a LEAF S, with a pathetic 150 mi. range and not very quick, but it was an earlier model. The Premium Tesla AWD has a range of 346 miles. In the real world, you could drive from Murrieta (where I live) to Los Angeles and back, all on sunlight (solar charging), with range to spare. This range covers 99% of needs for nearly all drivers, though hybrids are still ideal for super remote areas where even getting gas might be problematic, not to mention repairs.

Parallel parking is great, but FSD is something to behold. Most people have no idea how good it's gotten. Even Jensen Huang of NVIDIA (who was working on his own self-driving tech for Mercedes) has exclaimed how far ahead Tesla is with FSD.

Truly, it's better to simply experience it if you haven't yet.

 

[Skilly]

This has been done numerous times. Just check the web or contact someone willing to race their EV against whatever you're bringing. Remember, stock for stock for the same cost.

If you're interested in statistics, there's no mystery here.

The point is, people have been racing EVs for years to test them, and for 55k you're not going to find a stock car that beats a Model 3 Performance in the real world, even with turns. That crazy electric acceleration is not just for stoplights, it powers out of turns like nobody's business.

A battery under the chassis is also better weight distribution than a heavy lump at the front of the car, and safer in an accident too.

Again we're talking about the state of automotive tech, facts, and statistics.

Im sorry this is just wrong. Not the part about Tesla drivers thinking they are racers tho (thats a thing).

Push these cars in a track and they are well known for overheating brakes, overheating batteries, understeer and body roll. They are not track performant, they are stop light to stop light performant. Fun car, sure, even impressive in some ways. But I think you are overstating the reality of how the car performs. Powering out of a corner, but limping into a corner because of brake fade and understeer is not fun.

All of these issues are well documented as well.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Im sorry this is just wrong. Not the part about Tesla drivers thinking they are racers tho (thats a thing).

Push these cars in a track and they are well known for overheating brakes, overheating batteries, understeer and body roll. They are not track performant, they are stop light to stop light performant. Fun car, sure, even impressive in some ways. But I think you are overstating the reality of how the car performs. Powering out of a corner, but limping into a corner because of brake fade and understeer is not fun.

All of these issues are well documented as well.

Yes, but I'm talking about real-world driving and have already mentioned their shortfalls in extended races which reduce the battery's SOC (state-of-charge) and overheat the brakes. They are track performant, but racing endurance is a weak point. Again, just go watch Randy Pobst's Pike's Peak run in a Model 3. Hill-climbing is a strength of EVs because they don't have power-loss due to a lack of air density, which is also a benefit on hot days or for any reason where air density robs ICE cars of their ideal power. This is why NASA was able to use an EV (lunar rover) for three moon missions. If you want to pass someone in a short distance and they're not slowing down to let you by, it's hard to beat an EV.

That power loss is why people in some budget ICE cars have to turn off the A/C to get a little more power, or lament hot days and sluggish performance. I cut my teeth on gas cars (I'm 57) so I remember!

For regular driving, EVs are quick because they battery is usually in a good state of charge (due to daily charging), power is ideal, the brakes aren't overheated, and they smoke nearly all vehicles from light-to-light if anyone is still foolish enough to race one. Being able to charge on solar radiation from our local star at no cost is a plus, though there are sunk costs with solar. It's good for the home too, not just EV or hybrid charging.

Really, it all comes down to SOC (state-of-charge) and keeping parts cool (true for any car). Batteries should improve over time with evolving battery tech. Tesla was only founded in 2003, where ICE vehicles first arrived in 1886. ICE has reached its peak and won't appreciably improve any time soon, but EVs and battery tech have most of their evolution ahead of them.

Either way, it's just technology and it's been a fun adventure for me to learn about all things EV, just like I dove into compact ICE cars and sportbikes.

 

[ef9boy88]

Just to be clear, hybrids are so-named because they include internal combustion engines. The term "EV" is for cars which are all electric, no ICE (internal combustion engine) at all. Either way, hybrids still have all of the complexity of a gas engine and their parasitic power loss, and many more points of failure. EVs are simple, with far less parasitic power loss and far fewer moving parts. This is a clear advantage over hybrids.

The Japanese manufacturers have been touting hybrids because they're late to the EV game, but eventually they'll be all-EV too. I say this as someone who's driven Japanese cars most of his life, so I'm not a hater. My first EV was a LEAF S, with a pathetic 150 mi. range and not very quick, but it was an earlier model. The Premium Tesla AWD has a range of 346 miles. In the real world, you could drive from Murrieta (where I live) to Los Angeles and back, all on sunlight (solar charging), with range to spare. This range covers 99% of needs for nearly all drivers, though hybrids are still ideal for super remote areas where even getting gas might be problematic, not to mention repairs.

Parallel parking is great, but FSD is something to behold. Most people have no idea how good it's gotten. Even Jensen Huang of NVIDIA (who was working on his own self-driving tech for Mercedes) has exclaimed how far ahead Tesla is with FSD.

Truly, it's better to simply experience it if you haven't yet.

You seem like you're working very hard to defend the purchase, probably have a catchy vanity plate signallijg your none need for oil. Notice I didn't say anything bad but stated that a Tesla just doesn't fit my needs. I'm glad to hear all of those systems are finally phenomenal and all dialed in, some of these Waymo incidents have been quite frightening. Again the Volt doesn't use the gas engine to operate the vehicle in any way, it simply charges the on board battery. Floor it from a light no engine, 90 on the highway still no engine. Get to close to killing the battery it turns on and charges the battery. Again, I enjoyed the car, it just not what I need.