Bad news for the P211 for CA

[Skilly]

I don’t think the guys at radian are aware of the ramifications. Someone should reach out because I imagine a big chunk of their ramjet sales are from CA and they wouldn’t want to lose that

They arent the same.

Radian makes a very clever barrel that does not meet the definition of a threaded barrel. Unfortunately, the P211 has been designed with lugs, which under the definitions of a threaded barrel in CA, is not compliant.

 

[BONECUTR]

I've been seeing people selling and transferring the frame only. And giving the buyer the GTO upper in the parking lot.

Literally see it once a week...... about 10-15 guns listed here alone that can't be transferred complete.....and not just GTO's

 

[calgunner01]

@Route66ShootingSportsPark do you have any official communications from sig verifying this?

 

[j0nathanl]

They arent the same.

Radian makes a very clever barrel that does not meet the definition of a threaded barrel. Unfortunately, the P211 has been designed with lugs, which under the definitions of a threaded barrel in CA, is not compliant.

It'll still have a high chance to be banned since Canik x Radian new collab gun was deemed an AW so it wont be on roster and its just a radian ramjet on it.

 

[Skilly]

It'll still have a high chance to be banned since Canik x Radian new collab gun was deemed an AW so it wont be on roster and its just a radian ramjet on it.

being restricted from the Roster is different from being classified as an AW. Can't find anything validating its been deemed an AW - please share the details.

 

[j0nathanl]

being restricted from the Roster is different from being classified as an AW. Can't find anything validating its been deemed an AW - please share the details.

it was deemed an aw and confirmed by Scott from Route 66 on reddit..

 

[Skilly]

it was deemed an aw and confirmed by Scott from Route 66 on reddit.a

just separating fact from opinion, I'd really prefer a document or bulletin from the CA DOJ saying this.

the Canik Prime Radian has not been deemed an assault weapon by any regulatory body including CA DOJ. That said, the gun is not on California's Handgun Roster — but that's a roster compliance issue, not an assault weapon designation. It has nothing to do with being classified as an assault weapon.

 

[j0nathanl]

just separating fact from opinion, I'd really prefer a document or bulletin from the CA DOJ saying this.

the Canik Prime Radian has not been deemed an assault weapon by any regulatory body including CA DOJ. That said, the gun is not on California's Handgun Roster — but that's a roster compliance issue, not an assault weapon designation. It has nothing to do with being classified as an assault weapon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CAguns/comments/1qtawki/comment/o31jdes

 

[Jmac530]

P211 is lugged, the ramjet isn’t, that’s why they haven’t gone after the ramjet, to remove the comp on the p211 you have to remove the screw and then turn it 180 degrees for the lugs to align perfectly to remove, the ramjet is just a screw and is not considered a lugged barrel

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

P211 is lugged, the ramjet isn’t, that’s why they haven’t gone after the ramjet, to remove the comp on the p211 you have to remove the screw and then turn it 180 degrees for the lugs to align perfectly to remove, the ramjet is just a screw and is not considered a lugged barrel

That isnt the only issue. The question will be, "Is it a suppressor mount and is there a suppressor designed to mount on it?"

 

[Skilly]

That isnt the only issue. The question will be, "Is it a suppressor mount and is there a suppressor designed to mount on it?"

They will have to redefine the definition of a threaded barrel. Also, there are pic mounted Suppressors but they haven't made pic rails deem a handgun an AW.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

They will have to redefine the definition of a threaded barrel. Also, there are pic mounted Suppressors but they haven't made pic rails deem a handgun an AW.

You keep bringing that up. Its the barrel. Always has been. So far. The definition already covers the gamut of whatever attachment method a pistol barrel can have and is only limited to CADOJs willingness to clarify.

 

[Skilly]

You keep bringing that up. Its the barrel. Always has been. So far.

I get it. And, you keep saying the Radian is high risk getting banned. I see the risk - the CA DOJ will twist itself in knots to take something away from us. I just prefer to deal in the facts or the discussion quickly becomes the truth (like the Canik Radian is an AW...it's not)

The logic Im using is just pointing to a couple of things that don't align with this. First, the current definition does not make the current Radian non-compliant so they would have to change the definition of a threaded barrel. So if there's that. And, if they don't do that, and its just the mere fact that a new design Suppressor can be mounted, then what makes it illegal? Beyond using the device, which is already illegal.

If its that it can be mounted (without a definition update), I'm just trying to follow the logic and showing mounting alternative methods like the pic rail exist.

 

[BONECUTR]

You keep bringing that up. Its the barrel. Always has been. So far. The definition already covers the gamut of whatever attachment method a pistol barrel can have and is only limited to CADOJs willingness to clarify.

The reason most FFL's in CA won't touch GTO's, certain Shadows and other 'lugged" barrel guns is because of the AW definition update:

CCR 5471 (rr) "Threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer" means a threaded barrel able to accept a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer, and includes a threaded barrel with any one of those features already mounted on it. Some firearms have "lugs" in lieu of threads on the end of the barrel. These lugs are used to attach some versions of silencers. For purposes of this definition a lugged barrel is the same as a threaded barrel.

The CADOJ would have to give more guidance on why Radian's would fall under that category since they are not threaded or lugged and open themselves up to a lawsuit for another underground regulation.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

I get it. And, you keep saying the Radian is high risk getting banned. I see the risk - the CA DOJ will twist itself in knots to take something away from us. I just prefer to deal in the facts or the discussion quickly becomes the truth (like the Canik Radian is an AW...it's not)

The logic Im using is just pointing to a couple of things that don't align with this. First, the current definition does not make the current Radian non-compliant so they would have to change the definition of a threaded barrel. So if there's that. And, if they don't do that, and its just the mere fact that a new design Suppressor can be mounted, then what makes it illegal? Beyond using the device, which is already illegal.

If its that it can be mounted (without a definition update), I'm just trying to follow the logic and showing mounting alternative methods like the pic rail exist.

What is yoir understanding of California's definition of a threaded pistol barrel? This is key. Whats a groove? Whats a lug? Is the ramjet designed to accept a suppressor?

 

[Skilly]

What is yoir understanding of California's definition of a threaded pistol barrel? This is key. Whats a groove? Whats a lug? Is the ramjet designed to accept a suppressor?

Forget yours or my interpretation its irrelevant. The point is that the CA DOJ approved it as designed under the current definition.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

Forget yours or my interpretation its irrelevant. The point is that the CA DOJ approved it as designed under the current definition.

The landscape is ever changing. Albeit, never in our favor.

 

[Skilly]

The landscape is ever changing. Albeit, never in our favor.

fair, and bump stocks and pistol braces are good Federal examples of new interpretation of existing language deeming something illegal (which was ultimately struck down).

That said, I actually don't think there is an example from California where something was approved and broadly available and then deemed illegal without a legislative or legal definition update.

 

[BONECUTR]

The point is that the CA DOJ approved it as designed under the current definition.

To my knowledge the CADOJ does not ever 'approve" anything.
I believe after one of their agents "Iggy" put in writing something that is legal (Colt AR15 marked fixed mags) when it was clearly not, they have had a hard stance against saying anything is legal. No matter how black and white it is.
They have on many occasion said they will leave it up to the 58 DA's in the state.

 

[calgunner01]

The reason most FFL's in CA won't touch GTO's, certain Shadows and other 'lugged" barrel guns is because of the AW definition update:

CCR 5471 (rr) "Threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer" means a threaded barrel able to accept a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer, and includes a threaded barrel with any one of those features already mounted on it. Some firearms have "lugs" in lieu of threads on the end of the barrel. These lugs are used to attach some versions of silencers. For purposes of this definition a lugged barrel is the same as a threaded barrel.

The CADOJ would have to give more guidance on why Radian's would fall under that category since they are not threaded or lugged and open themselves up to a lawsuit for another underground regulation.

I wonder when this definition was added?