Being Flagged while doing Public CCW Quals?

[supermike]

Do you think it was a good thing California extended the CCW required course time? Maybe its a good thing to stop these incidents.

extended the course time so they can charge more money.
Most people in class are proficient in shooting and legal aspect are just wasting time there because they have to be in that class. And you always had that 1 or 2 dumbbell that no matter how many CCW course they took are still dangerous and ignorance...AND THEY WILL STILL PASS...

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

extended the course time so they can charge more money.
Most people in class are proficient in shooting and legal aspect are just wasting time there because they have to be in that class. And you always had that 1 or 2 dumbbell that no matter how many CCW course they took are still dangerous and ignorance...AND THEY WILL STILL PASS...

I think there are two camps of thought on CCW classes and competency gun owners should have in general from what I've seen here and on "L" site and others.

1. Those that want individuals in the CCW class to be proficient and not let those classes make it so easy and pass individuals that are deemed dangerous and ignorant and can barely shoot.
2. Those that say the Constitution mentions NOTHING about having to beg for a permit, take a two day class, then be proficient at specific distances that are timed, only to get a random piece of paper that says "You qualified to exercise you Constitutional Right", only to have to beg every 2 years to do it again.

My humble opinion is stated above . . .

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

Do you think it was a good thing California extended the CCW required course time? Maybe its a good thing to stop these incidents.

Should California require a background check, a specific course and amount to time in that course, then charge you to attend, then make you show proficiency, to be able to exercise your First Amendment right? What about your Right to Vote?

Slippery slope for sure when we want the State to mandate courses, fees, and proficiency to exercise our rights. Just saying.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Do you think it was a good thing California extended the CCW required course time? Maybe its a good thing to stop these incidents.

unfortunately they didn't extend the shooting time it's just the time you sit in a room. My teacher did have us shoot both days though, the first day as a practice day but it was like 20 minutes

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Should California require a background check, a specific course and amount to time in that course, then charge you to attend, then make you show proficiency, to be able to exercise your First Amendment right? What about your Right to Vote?

Slippery slope for sure when we want the State to mandate courses, fees, and proficiency to exercise our rights. Just saying.

unfortunately Kavanaugh's Bruen opinion set it in stone that it's perfectly fine to do that with firearms:

Justice Kavanaugh, joined by Chief Justice Roberts, agreed that the New York’s licensing regime violated the Second Amendment but wrote separately to underscore that the Court’s decision would not prohibit states from imposing licensing requirements for public carry based on objective criteria so long as the requirements “do not grant open-ended discretion to licensing officials and do not require a showing of some special need apart from self-defense.” Justice Kavanaugh, quoting from Heller, reiterated that the Second Amendment right is not unlimited and may allow for many kinds of gun regulations

 

[Sydwaiz]

Instead of extending it they should add a safe handling demonstration with a fake firearm or dummy round. The instructor and everyone else doesn't know how people handle firearms till they have loaded guns on the range for the qual. Hell, you need to show how to load and unload a dummy round when you purchase one. Do the same thing before live fire.

I did my qual earlier this week. It was a blended CCW online course. 14.5 hours online, 1.5 hours in classroom before live fire. Instructor had everyone show up to class with their firearms disassembled to show we know how to strip and clean them. Instructor also had two Glocks with dummy rounds in class and each student had to show safe handling. Not all do this? They should.

No one got swept but there were a couple shooters that raised my eyebrows. I won't get into it incase they are here reading this! There were 7 qualifying for the first time and 7 renewing. Instructor made a joke about some people renewing haven't shot since their last renewal 2 years ago...

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

unfortunately Kavanaugh's Bruen opinion set it in stone that it's perfectly fine to do that with firearms:

Justice Kavanaugh, joined by Chief Justice Roberts, agreed that the New York’s licensing regime violated the Second Amendment but wrote separately to underscore that the Court’s decision would not prohibit states from imposing licensing requirements for public carry based on objective criteria so long as the requirements “do not grant open-ended discretion to licensing officials and do not require a showing of some special need apart from self-defense.” Justice Kavanaugh, quoting from Heller, reiterated that the Second Amendment right is not unlimited and may allow for many kinds of gun regulations

I do find it interesting that the courts and California can and do require us to requalify every two years with vastly different qualification requirements per county, yet to obtain a Driver's License I only have do that once and it is the same in every county in California.

Most in California have never re-taken a driving test since they got their license yet can renew online as needed. To me it feels like a greater burden is placed on obtaining and keeping a CCW permit which is "Right" than say getting and keeping a Driver's license which is a "Privilege"

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I do find it interesting that the courts and California can and do require us to requalify every two years with vastly different qualification requirements per county, yet to obtain a Driver's License I only have do that once and it is the same in every county in California.

Most in California have never re-taken a driving test since they got their license yet can renew online as needed. To me it feels like a greater burden is placed on obtaining and keeping a CCW permit which is "Right" than say getting and keeping a Driver's license which is a "Privilege"

well hopefully that new bill passes that extends the time in between renewalls up to six years. But the local jurisdiction is based on the way the penal code is written that specifies that the county Sheriff is to issue the permit. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=26150.

I would bet that sheriffs liked this when there were only a few permits getting through but now that essentially everyone can get one they probably hate processing these and they are very expensive because they are paying a LE agent to do it. It really should just be issued by the state, hell why not just use the infrastructure at the DOJ that already exists that reviews firearms purchases in order to do it in the least expensive way. You don't even need law enforcement to review the applications because the disqualifying activities should be very clear i.e. the same exact ones that disqualify you from owning/purchasing a firearm in the first place. But I wouldn't doubt that sheriffs and counties would support changing the code to a state system instead.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

The renewal class I took had 3 different Counties in the class.
San Mateo County

• 6 shots 10yrds (no time limit) x 2.
• 6 shots 7yrds (no time limit) x 2
• 6 shots 5yrds (no time limit) x 2. Had to reload standing on the firing line as I only had three 10 round mags

Santa Clara County

• 5 shots 15yrds (20 sec) x 2.
• 5 shots 7yrds (15 secs) x 2
• 5 shots 5yrds (10 sec) x2.

San Francisco County

• 5 shots 15yrds (40 sec) x 2.
• 5 shots 7yrds (50 secs) x 2
• 5 shots 5yrds (20 sec) x2.
• 2 shots 5 yrds (15 sec) Strong hand only.

Made no sense to me they were different AND frustrating as I only brought 3 ten round mags and had to manually top off mags between rounds. Lol
When I initially qualified 2 yrs ago I thought it was 5 rounds x 2 which was more convenient with 10 round mags

 

[bamer02]

Just qualified about 2 weeks ago…might need to consider some sort of protection in the future…lol

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I think there are two camps of thought on CCW classes and competency gun owners should have in general from what I've seen here and on "L" site and others.

1. Those that want individuals in the CCW class to be proficient and not let those classes make it so easy and pass individuals that are deemed dangerous and ignorant and can barely shoot.
2. Those that say the Constitution mentions NOTHING about having to beg for a permit, take a two day class, then be proficient at specific distances that are timed, only to get a random piece of paper that says "You qualified to exercise you Constitutional Right", only to have to beg every 2 years to do it again.

My humble opinion is stated above . . .

Logically, anyone seeking to conceal-carry a gun should have basic competency with any firearm listed on one's permit. It's also the pragmatic view for the safety of others.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

Logically, anyone seeking to conceal-carry a gun should have basic competency with any firearm listed on one's permit. It's also the pragmatic view for the safety of others.

I agree logically as well but find a disconnect as it relates to the 2A and many gun owners opinions.

I think most would agree the Government “Shall Not Infringe” on the right to bear (own) arms, but do we agree it can create a permit process, mandate 16 hours of class room education and qualification requirements, to carry (bear) those arms.

No one is checking competency in the 29 states that allow Constitutional Carry. Are California CCW Permit holders safer than say Florida or Texas gun owners?

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I agree logically as well but find a disconnect as it relates to the 2A and many gun owners opinions.

I think most would agree the Government “Shall Not Infringe” on the right to bear (own) arms, but do we agree it can create a permit process, mandate 16 hours of class room education and qualification requirements, to carry (bear) those arms.

No one is checking competency in the 29 states that allow Constitutional Carry. Are California CCW Permit holders safer than say Florida or Texas gun owners?

It's kinda like free speech. It's a 1A right, but It's not an absolute right. There are reasonable limits, just like public schools can't teach religion to a captive (student) audience.

So, making sure that one has basic competency for conceal-carry is in the interest of public safety. Why have a CCW test if one cannot be failed for lack of competency?

I know that driving is called a privilege and not a right but we test drivers for competency for public safety too, which is also why there are laws against driving under the influence or while impaired.

Ostensibly, the common good is why we have CARB standards and smog checks along with speed control devices such as speed limits. We can learn a lot from countries like Germany which emphasize driver training and lane discipline over simple limits on absolute speed. Speed disparity is a far greater problem than mere velocity itself.

 

[D.A.V.I.D.]

The class I took a few years ago a lady dropped her gun not once but twice in the glass.

 

[9Cal_OC]

The class I took a few years ago a lady dropped her gun not once but twice in the glass.

Maybe she’s Ms. Glass-half-full

 

[mrbieler]

It is interesting to see where folks draw a line on rights vs privilege.

 

[Gawernator]

Does anyone have a similar experience. Was doing a CCW renewal course and saw at least three of eight people on the firing line mishandling, flagging, and or having their fingers on the trigger before it was time to fire. The guy next to me got flagged and grabbed the dude's gun and threw it downrange instinctively. The flagger got kicked out of the class and will be rescheduled for the next session. I was genuinely concerned and next renewal plan to bring body armor and a helmet to prevent any injuries on the range. Are the requirements for CCWs now getting way to easy that inexperienced or untrained people are ending up qualifying and carrying firearms in the community. Asking if anyone had similar experiences or maybe I just got a bad batch.

Does anyone ever fail the quals? I didn't get flagged but the woman next to me was limp wristing shots, and when she had malfunctions too she had no idea what to do, she also passed somehow

 

[Gawernator]

Still grounds to boot him from the class and make him pay any damages for the firearm. It is extremely dangerous to try and remove a gun from someone's hand without their consent especially when its pointing at you. Stepping back is much safer and the person who did that is lucky they didn't get shot.,... That logic makes zero sense.

Yeah this, that's vandalism and some child-like retard mentality of a response to being flagged

 

[Gawernator]

It's kinda like free speech. It's a 1A right, but It's not an absolute right. There are reasonable limits, just like public schools can't teach religion to a captive (student) audience.

So, making sure that one has basic competency for conceal-carry is in the interest of public safety. Why have a CCW test if one cannot be failed for lack of competency?

I know that driving is called a privilege and not a right but we test drivers for competency for public safety too, which is also why there are laws against driving under the influence or while impaired.

Ostensibly, the common good is why we have CARB standards and smog checks along with speed control devices such as speed limits. We can learn a lot from countries like Germany which emphasize driver training and lane discipline over simple limits on absolute speed. Speed disparity is a far greater problem than mere velocity itself.

The main issue is the cost I think, the class itself I'm kinda ok with. But why is a privilege to drive a death machine like $50 yet a "right" costs over $1k+?

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Are the requirements for CCWs now getting way too easy that inexperienced or untrained people are ending up qualifying and carrying firearms in the community. Asking if anyone had similar experiences or maybe I just got a bad batch.

Yes. The deputies at 2 of my quals told they used to be very “pro 2A”, but after taking that job they’re worried about both the lack of training and preparedness along with the rapidly increasing volume of CCW applications.