help me pick my second gun: Springfield Echelon 4c Comp vs HK VP9 A1-K

[AaronV54]

oh this is intriguing! sorry, I'm such a noob, had no idea these upgrades were possible. Dumb question, if the Radian afterburner comp thing legal in CA? asking because it says in their website that its not compatible with loaded chamber indicators, where the CA sigs have. That route seems like it would make a lot of sense with a flatter shooting p365.

it is. It's going to cost you about 400-500 extra to grab. You might as well just get the Echelon 4.0c Comp and it want break the bank. Echelon is ready to shoot out of the box and it has one of the best optic mounting platforms around

 

[tinypuck1188]

it is. It's going to cost you about 400-500 extra to grab. You might as well just get the Echelon 4.0c Comp and it want break the bank. Echelon is ready to shoot out of the box and it has one of the best optic mounting platforms around

380 on certain websites

 

[haroldopsf]

so, just to confirm, the fact that the Radian is incompatible with the LCI just means you loose LCI when you install it, and not that you can't install it, correct?

 

[adrkwan]

It sounds like you keep your guns stock? If so, the VP9. It feels great out the box. The only thing I would do is maybe a weighted backstrap from Taylorfreelance. The Echelon has some more aftermarket support if you like to tinker. The Icarus grip feels great to me and has slightly better ergo than the OEM.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

I went through a box full of holsters for nearly every pistol I own. Glock 19/17/43X, VP9s, SA XDs, Sig P365X, etc., I could only conceal and only felt comfortable with my G43X and Sig P365X. I have both on my CCW along with my G19.

I went through the exercise of conceal carry around the house with various guns in various positions with various holsters. I'm 5'8" 195 lbs and could NOT appendix carry at all. I now carry both the G43X and Sig P365X in Black Arch IWB at 3:30. Very comfortable for me.

The P365X/XL is VERY easy to conceal even more so than my G43X. I tend to carry the P365X in Summer and G19 in Winter when baggy clothes and coats are worn.

The best Conceal Gun is one you can (a) actually conceal in comfort, so that (b) you actually carry it. Many find their gun is too big or too heavy or just to uncomfortable to carry, so they rarely do.

Good luck!

 

[adrkwan]

so, just to confirm, the fact that the Radian is incompatible with the LCI just means you loose LCI when you install it, and not that you can't install it, correct?

Yup. Not my pic - Comparison

 

[weaverftw]

I went through a box full of holsters for nearly every pistol I own. Glock 19/17/43X, VP9s, SA XDs, Sig P365X, etc., I could only conceal and only felt comfortable with my G43X and Sig P365X. I have both on my CCW along with my G19.

I went through the exercise of conceal carry around the house with various guns in various positions with various holsters. I'm 5'8" 195 lbs and could NOT appendix carry at all. I now carry both the G43X and Sig P365X in Black Arch IWB at 3:30. Very comfortable for me.

The P365X/XL is VERY easy to conceal even more so than my G43X. I tend to carry the P365X in Summer and G19 in Winter when baggy clothes and coats are worn.

The best Conceal Gun is one you can (a) actually conceal in comfort, so that (b) you actually carry it. Many find their gun is too big or too heavy or just to uncomfortable to carry, so they rarely do.

Good luck!

That being said, I’m carrying my G19 right now and my level of confidence in it is 10x compared to the p365. I shoot it SO much better. But yeah, usually so far the p365 ends up on the belt due to convenience

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

That being said, I’m carrying my G19 right now and my level of confidence in it is 10x compared to the p365. I shoot it SO much better. But yeah, usually so far the p365 ends up on the belt due to convenience

Same for me . . .

 

[shadow77phl]

oh this is intriguing! sorry, I'm such a noob, had no idea these upgrades were possible. Dumb question, if the Radian afterburner comp thing legal in CA? asking because it says in their website that its not compatible with loaded chamber indicators, where the CA sigs have. That route seems like it would make a lot of sense with a flatter shooting p365.

Radian combo is not threaded so it is legal. You need to remove the LCI, easy process, you can leave it as is or print and lci delete plug. Lurch manufacturing used to sell those plugs, he does not anymore, he sells the file for one to be able to 3d print the plug.

 

[adrkwan]

Radian combo is not threaded so it is legal. You need to remove the LCI, easy process, you can leave it as is or print and lci delete plug. Lurch manufacturing used to sell those plugs, he does not anymore, he sells the file for one to be able to 3d print the plug.

Would recommend plug. The strangest stuff gets inside if you leave it open.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

Thoughts on modifications to CCW Guns? I keep mine bone stock as they come from the factory.

 

[chino1966]

At the end of the day it's all personal preference. All of us got different hand sizes and body types compared to you. Only you gonna know whats right for you. Take up @weaverftw 's offer. Important thing isnt the specs of the gun but going out and actually training.

 

[weaverftw]

Thoughts on modifications to CCW Guns? I keep mine bone stock as they come from the factory.

General consensus in CA or other states with similar culture is to not touch trigger components; sights/grips/light/optic are generally considered fine. Although it makes no sense to penalize someone for making the trigger better, and thus more accurate and less likely to hurt an innocent bystander due to a miss, prosecutors may push a false narrative so people are cautious. I know people in other states that dgaf and carry full on competition trigger guns though lol

 

[shadow77phl]

General consensus in CA or other states with similar culture is to not touch trigger components; sights/grips/light/optic are generally considered fine. Although it makes no sense to penalize someone for making the trigger better, and thus more accurate and less likely to hurt an innocent bystander due to a miss, prosecutors may push a false narrative so people are cautious. I know people in other states that dgaf and carry full on competition trigger guns though lol

On this, there was a Video from foremost defense expert and gun instructor Massad Ayoob back then shedding light on the matter. In gist, for as long as its not sub 3 or sub 2 lbs trigger, it's defensible. No, no would be backplate on a glock with pry it from my dead hands or that type of stuff writing and stuff and oh, barrel lettering with smile and wait for the flash. Source: YouTube https://share.google/d9ggxnG0fgFBoaucp

 

[weaverftw]

On this, there was a Video from foremost defense expert and gun instructor Massad Ayoob back then shedding light on the matter. In gist, for as long as its not sub 3 or sub 2 lbs trigger, it's defensible. No, no would be backplate on a glock with pry it from my dead hands or that type of stuff writing and stuff and oh, barrel lettering with smile and wait for the flash. Source: YouTube https://share.google/d9ggxnG0fgFBoaucp

Ah yeah good call, I forgot about that aspect. No “punisher” skulls, “we don’t call 911” slogans, or any of that BS. That stuff is so tacky anyways I wouldn’t be caught dead with it, but some people eat it up… don’t put it in a carry gun or holster or you’ll be getting LOTS of questions…

 

[Salamander]

Can't speak to the Springfield, but I'm carrying a VP9a1 K right now, with an EPS mounted it's concealing fine IWB under an un-tucked shirt.

Reasons (for me):

Reliability. I carry in the backcountry a lot where that matters, so it's a top priority for me. My USPs and P2000s have all been extremely reliable under sometimes tough conditions, and so far (500 rounds) the VP9 has also been flawless.

I prefer the paddle mag release, unlike most button releases I can drop a mag without shifting the grip in my hands.

VP9's run out of the box, unlike some brands no mods are needed. All I've done is mount the optic, apply some grip tape, and order a holster.

I've been deep in the HK ecosystem for 15+ years and trust the product, so it wouldn't make sense for me to change. If you're relatively new then you have choices; after trying a bunch of stuff, you may dial back to one or two brands, or at least a lot off us have done so. No other easy way to find out what works for you though.

Yes HK costs a little more, for my use case I feel it's worth it. For you, well only you can decide. Sounds like you've thought about the planned use for this pistol (carry) which is an important first step in the process, take that a little farther and think through what kind of situations you expect to carry in and ask if one choice may be better at that than another.

 

[GuardUXC661]

I'm a new gun owner, got my first one a month ago (Sig P320 X5 Legion), thinking that it would enough for home defense and fun at the range. Next thing I know I took two separate 16 hour handgun courses, another 16 hour one for CCW coming this month, been dry fire practicing almost every day, obsessing as I discover everything about firearms, and now I have a list of a bunch of guns I want to eventually own (carry, shotgun, and rifle). I have no idea how I got here.

Cut story short, I think my next one will be something I can carry. On this realm, I am looking for those pistols that are concealable but still fun to shoot, with a 4 inch barrel, and shorter grip module.

I'm looking for the best thing I can get under $1500. In this range, I have narrowed to these 2 pistols, purposely not including the P365 as I want something different than a Sig for my second one (and I think the Echelon and HK here are better options for me anyway, not to mention they look amazing, the Echelon feature rich and optics ready, and the HK with outstanding build quality).

I have been searching for comparisons between these 2, and have not run into much.

Spam me with your thoughts please.

Also, if there is something else I should consider, please share.

Thanks in advance!CA

Can't speak to the Springfield, but I'm carrying a VP9a1 K right now, with an EPS mounted it's concealing fine IWB under an un-tucked shirt.

Reasons (for me):

Reliability. I carry in the backcountry a lot where that matters, so it's a top priority for me. My USPs and P2000s have all been extremely reliable under sometimes tough conditions, and so far (500 rounds) the VP9 has also been flawless.

I prefer the paddle mag release, unlike most button releases I can drop a mag without shifting the grip in my hands.

VP9's run out of the box, unlike some brands no mods are needed. All I've done is mount the optic, apply some grip tape, and order a holster.

I've been deep in the HK ecosystem for 15+ years and trust the product, so it wouldn't make sense for me to change. If you're relatively new then you have choices; after trying a bunch of stuff, you may dial back to one or two brands, or at least a lot off us have done so. No other easy way to find out what works for you though.

Yes HK costs a little more, for my use case I feel it's worth it. For you, well only you can decide. Sounds like you've thought about the planned use for this pistol (carry) which is an important first step in the process, take that a little farther and think through what kind of situations you expect to carry in and ask if one choice may be better at that than another.

I would get the CZ P10C Ported, great gun and about the price of an optic cheaper.

 

[dfens]

If it were me it would be the VP9.

I own a original VP9 fullsize grip and compact slide for more than 10 years and it's been my bedside gun to this day.

If I didn't have it I'd get the VP9 A1-K in a heartbeat. Now I did shoot the Echelon 4.5 fullsize comp and it shot really good better trigger than a glock, felt good in the hand, comp really kept it flat shooting. Didn't like the magazine release too small and because of the mag disconnect they are not drop free unless you remove it. Yes the HK will be a little over 200 dollars more but that's nothing for the difference in build quality and better trigger out of the box.

If you are in San Jose Reeds Indoor Range has the 4.5 Comp and the older VP9 for rent.

I'm still waiting for the HK CC9 to drop before I apply for my CCW to go along with my VP9SK. And when I get some more extra cash saved up I plan on getting a Staccato 3.6 HD. If I didn't spend a bunch of money for my up coming vacation I would have bought it few weeks ago when I to go handle one in store.

 

[blackmountain]

You can’t beat the price and echelon. Out of the box it’s great especially the comp version. I have fullsize comp and love it. It shoots flat. I have a older version of vp9 and I like the echelon better.

 

[haroldopsf]

Can't speak to the Springfield, but I'm carrying a VP9a1 K right now, with an EPS mounted it's concealing fine IWB under an un-tucked shirt.

thanks for chiming in! Could you please share more about your setup (i.e. holster, etc)?