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Thanks @Wolkenflieger for sharing this, I heard of H&H but didn't know the details of their business model. There is something more interesting here than just whether the price is justified.

The real product is not range time, it is a controlled environment.

The high cost, ammo restrictions and structure are not arbitrary. They reduce variability. Fewer people more staff tighter rules and a curated space all minimize the biggest unknown at most public ranges which is the person in the next lane. I was at a shooting range that experienced suicides and uncontrolled mag dumping from noobs. Because I am not familiar with the folks at my range I find the safety concerns both valid and compelling.

It is not that members there are better shooters, H&H is engineered to be more predictable.

@Scubabugdiver pointed out it might attract people who otherwise would not try shooting. I agree. This gets more compelling when you connect it to something Matt Cubeiro said in his AMA thread. When asked what question people should be asking he did not point to legal strategy. He said the focus should be on preserving rights by introducing new people to firearms in a positive repeatable way. It is not about winning in court. It is about growing the base through experience.

Seen through that lens a place like this makes more sense.. traditional ranges can be intimidating or chaotic for first timers. Noise unclear norms and random behavior are not great onboarding conditions. This model flips that into something familiar w/ clean social structured and low friction.

Less like Knott’s Berry Farm w a rough crowd. More like Disneyland early entry where access is controlled and standards are enforced.

Less like Southwest Airlines with chaotic boarding and seat disputes. More like United where structure and expectations create a more orderly experience.

The more interesting question is whether pricing is the only way to achieve this kind of environment. Right now the model uses money as the filter. Pay more get less chaos. It works but it is blunt. If the goal is broader adoption you would want similar outcomes through culture not just cost.

There is something here.. not as a replacement for traditional ranges or training but as a different layer in the ecosystem. A controlled socially acceptable entry point. The real opportunity is figuring out how to replicate that environment without needing a country club price tag.
I agree with you, but it's also about the range and environment. Variable reduction is good for rhe range to avoid people shooting prohibited rounds of any type, but it's also a source of revenue. With fees so high, membership will be naturally lower and there would be opportunity to vet members who want to use their own ammo and preferred grain weight.

Or, the range could simply check ammo at range check-in with penalties for shooting prohibited ammo such as steel jackets or whatever is prohibited.

The high fees themselves reduce crowds and that itself is a nice safety perk...exclusivity...like a private golf club.

The lanes themselves are pristine and not all shot up like some other indoor ranges.
 
You’re evaluating it like a range which is missing the point IMHO. The hardware may be standard but that’s not what’s being sold. The value is in the environment. Controlled access, lower density, consistent behavior and most importantly a curated space.
This. And, it is state-of-the art because of the reduced and controlled population. It can stay nice because the number of noobs and jagoffs is reduced. A range that suffers less abuse and mistreatment can afford to invest in higher-quality equipment. The whole facility is pristine, like being in a Hotrod and Handgun museum, with food and much more.

When it comes to guns, keeping out the riff-raff and tourists is a huge perk. It's one of the benefits of any private range, including the range where I have a membership.
 
Yup I agree. The ammo policy esp with limited budget rounds is short sighted of them. They can offer a corking fee to inspect the ammo you bring lol.

Skirting the vandalism is a big one. It's why we can't have nice things because the Edgars of society like to break sh*t.
 
Do so many people here really not understand exclusive pay to play clubs? I wonder how many of them wear designer boots and sunglasses and skinny jeans or drive BMWs/Mercedes/whatever as well, not realizing it's the same thing but on a scale they just can't afford.
 
Yep, according to that they can get in trouble or maybe loose there FFL. According to the law regarding DROS they can only charge 37.19 for the dros and only make $10 per firearm w/ that dros making it a total for 1 pistol dros'd 47.19$ and and 10$ for each additional firearm (if on the same dros) customers do not know this for the most part so some shops wont get in trouble!

#13 & #14 https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#:~:text=How much is the state fee when purchasing a firearm?,-•&text=The total state fee is,28230, 28300, 28233.)

For all the years I've heard of people complaining about PPT fees and associated storage, handling, and forced gun lock sales that have gone along with them and alleged reporting to the ATF, I've never once heard of an FFL actually getting in any sort of trouble much less losing their license. Never ever. If someone else knows of any, please post them here but from what I've heard the ATF doesn't care about that at all and does zero about complaints.
 
This. And, it is state-of-the art because of the reduced and controlled population. It can stay nice because the number of noobs and jagoffs is reduced. A range that suffers less abuse and mistreatment can afford to invest in higher-quality equipment. The whole facility is pristine, like being in a Hotrod and Handgun museum, with food and much more.

When it comes to guns, keeping out the riff-raff and tourists is a huge perk. It's one of the benefits of any private range, including the range where I have a membership.
Tourists want to try? Why not? Some tourists may have gone through their countries' mandatory military service and may have an understanding.

I took my bro-in-law from Korea to OC indoor range in brea like 5 years ago. I only had a hi-point c9 and rented a basic glock 17. The last time he shot was daewoo k5 in RoK Marines more than a decade ago. He sent the target out to 25/max, took my hi-point all 9 shots dead center headshot. Took the glock, all 10 center gut. Bro, I'd be lucky if shot 2 rounds in same hole at 7 yards, this guy does all. The range asks if he is a pro shooter lol. He sucked with the shotgun and pcc though, so I didn't feel like a complete loser lol.
 
This. And, it is state-of-the art because of the reduced and controlled population. It can stay nice because the number of noobs and jagoffs is reduced. A range that suffers less abuse and mistreatment can afford to invest in higher-quality equipment. The whole facility is pristine, like being in a Hotrod and Handgun museum, with food and much more.

When it comes to guns, keeping out the riff-raff and tourists is a huge perk. It's one of the benefits of any private range, including the range where I have a membership.
Every indoor range I’ve used in the SF Bay Area has all kinds of bullet holes in places I fail to understand how they got there. So, yea, I could see where more selective ranges would be nice.
 
That's why I love Placer Sporting Club. Super nice inside, good member perks, never any wait, no ghettos or poors, modern electronic range. Love it
 
Sometimes you need those types of experiences though. Like going to the not-so-BLM-spot-called-Hodge and having to hear bullet whizzings as you go out to set up targets.

Can't be babied. /s.

And RoE applies at BLM (IANAL) if you want a possibly of combat experience in the desert, ski on a snowy mtn, hike a forest, and swim in ocean all in a single day.
 
Tourists want to try? Why not? Some tourists may have gone through their countries' mandatory military service and may have an understanding.

I took my bro-in-law from Korea to OC indoor range in brea like 5 years ago. I only had a hi-point c9 and rented a basic glock 17. The last time he shot was daewoo k5 in RoK Marines more than a decade ago. He sent the target out to 25/max, took my hi-point all 9 shots dead center headshot. Took the glock, all 10 center gut. Bro, I'd be lucky if shot 2 rounds in same hole at 7 yards, this guy does all. The range asks if he is a pro shooter lol. He sucked with the shotgun and pcc though, so I didn't feel like a complete loser lol.
I am all for tourists and noobs trying out rented guns, but I may not necessarily want to be around when they do.
 
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