Kimber 2K11 California Updates?

[chavers07]

Kimber should be covering the cost to make them “CA Complaint”. Thus decrease their marginal profit by 7%-10%. It’s just like the tariffs. We end up paying for it (CA 2k11s are 250$ more). The law abiding citizen always gets screwed over.

 

[No_glonks]

the platypus and the HD weigh the same, so does a Staccato P, all around 32-33 oz. the staccatos aren't 5" guns they are duty oriented whereas the platypus is a "range gun" and 5" and the weight forward helps the muzzle rise quite a bit. That's not to say they aren't nice, I have no problem with them and I wasn't even talking about the platypus in this thread. But try one against a real double stack 1911 in the 40-50oz range and you will feel the difference. The platypus is the platypus, the DS warrior is 5oz less than the platypus so I don't get what they are going for besides not wanting to overlap with the 2k11. Will people buy it? sure. But it won't be as good as it should/could be. 28oz range gun? wtf?

Sure thing, I love steel framed guns. Was just saying aluminum frames have their place too, they serve well and fun to shoot.

 

[RustVendor]

Sure thing, I love steel framed guns. Was just saying aluminum frames are have their place too, they serve well and fun to shoot.

For sure but it could be so much better for the same price. We have no lack of 28oz guns here, we have a severe lack of steel framed double stacked 5" guns like actually there are zero on the roster until these 2k11s come

 

[Gawernator]

It’s 9mm, Aluminum is more than sufficient and the lighter carry weight is a Plus.

LOL, these young guys kill me, a 5” 1911 or any 5” gun is something us old timers carried on a regular basis. A 1911 5” is easy to carry because of how thin the gun is overall being a single stack way back when.

Before Kydex became the craze, we used thick leather belts, sometimes fortified for to make them sturdier and quality leather holster, usually with a thumbreak.

But what do I know, just a waiting for the Meteor I guess

You crack me up. Yeah I have to agree, I guess they don't understand duty gun means you have to CARRY IT AROUND ALL DAY ON DUTY hahahahah. If you need a steel frame to shoot accurately the gun is not the issue. My polymer frame PDP compact and P2000SK seem to get the job done just fine... when I switch to a metal gun like the 1911/M9/MK25 it feels like cheating they're so easy to shoot well.

 

[RustVendor]

One of the most used and famous service / duty pistols ever, the Beretta M9 has an aluminum frame. Check and mate borther

Read back a few messages, I was responding to a guy saying "it's not a duty pistol it's a range pistol".

 

[RustVendor]

You crack me up. Yeah I have to agree, I guess they don't understand duty gun means you have to CARRY IT AROUND ALL DAY ON DUTY hahahahah. If you need a steel frame to shoot accurately the gun is not the issue. My polymer frame PDP compact and P2000SK seem to get the job done just fine... when I switch to a metal gun like the 1911/M9/MK25 it feels like cheating they're so easy to shoot well.

You are making a lot of weird assumptions, no one needs a heavy gun to shoot accurately, they want one because they are more stable to shoot fast and accurate in a match setting. Nobody here is talking about someone slow firing at the static range. That's what 2011s are best for, shooting matches, not carrying. I personally carry my 5" m&p sometimes so sure, it's possible and it's not that bad. But I got a compact to put on my permit though because it's better to carry and a few less ozs. I can shoot it basically as well but the 5" m&p has a very nice recoil impulse that is hard to beat. so the question remains, if they want it to be a gun you carry, why would they make a lightweight 5"? it would make much more sense to make a smaller gun that's better to carry. A 2011 style pistol makes a poor "duty gun" in general for more reasons than we have discussed here, the biggest being they aren't nearly as reliable as any of the top plastic striker guns. The gun itself requires tuning and maintenance with springs lasting only a few thousand rounds sometimes. The extractor requires tuning, the magazines require tuning, you have to run them wet, depending on which guide rod you run they all have different problems. 2011s and surely cheap 2011s require a lot of attention which makes them poor guns to rely on when there are myriad other less expensive ones that will go bang without even lube.

 

[RustVendor]

It’s 9mm, Aluminum is more than sufficient and the lighter carry weight is a Plus.

LOL, these young guys kill me, a 5” 1911 or any 5” gun is something us old timers carried on a regular basis. A 1911 5” is easy to carry because of how thin the gun is overall being a single stack way back when.

Before Kydex became the craze, we used thick leather belts, sometimes fortified for to make them sturdier and quality leather holster, usually with a thumbreak.

But what do I know, just a waiting for the Meteor I guess

I'm not looking for "sufficient", my match gun is 52oz and I like shooting it more than a 28oz gun when I'm shooting on the move and doing doubles as fast as I can. It's not something I "need" it's something I "want". 2011s are finicky as hell and make poor carry guns, there's nothing really to argue about beyond that, the 9mm DS warrior lacks an identity and would be much better in steel.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

…there's nothing really to argue about beyond that, the 9mm DS warrior lacks an identity and would be much better in steel.

 

[decius_mus]

the 9mm DS warrior lacks an identity and would be much better in steel.

It doesn't lack an identity. Its identity is that it's a double stack 9mm 1911 that's made in america for the $1000 price point. Obviously it would be better in steel. No one is arguing that aluminum alloy is better than steel for the 2011 platform. But the $1000 street price is the story of this gun. It won't appeal to people who want a 1911 with a steel frame. And that's perfectly fine.

Realistically I think the question is whether or not Kimber can make this gun out of steel and maintain the price point. Without seeing the BoM I would suspect that they are unable to do so at the margins they require because the process, materials, and American labor costs make that impossible. They could have made it out of steel and simply increased the price. But the price point is the headline here. It's what got all of the youtubers to cover it.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

It doesn't lack an identity. Its identity is that it's a double stack 9mm 1911 that's made in america for the $1000 price point. Obviously it would be better in steel. No one is arguing that aluminum alloy is better than steel for the 2011 platform. But the $1000 street price is the story of this gun. It won't appeal to people who want a 1911 with a steel frame. And that's perfectly fine.

Realistically I think the question is whether or not Kimber can make this gun out of steel and maintain the price point. Without seeing the BoM I would suspect that they are unable to do so at the margins they require because the process, materials, and American labor costs make that impossible. They could have made it out of steel and simply increased the price. But the price point is the headline here. It's what got all of the youtubers to cover it.

I’ll bite. I THINK it is better n Aluminum for a 9mm. I don’t need a 9mm pistol weighing close to an ultra light rifle in my opinion.

 

[darkhalf78]

following this thread. i am waiting for kimber and sig 2011s to come thru the roster. that r66 is a killer as well

 

[No_glonks]

following this thread. i am waiting for kimber and sig 2011s to come thru the roster. that r66 is a killer as well

A bit over an hour from me, but once kimber, and hopefully p4.5 added, very next “we cover your sin tax” sale I’ll make a drive. Plus sales tax lower than la county.
Saved $300 on P4 that way

 

[RustVendor]

It doesn't lack an identity. Its identity is that it's a double stack 9mm 1911 that's made in america for the $1000 price point. Obviously it would be better in steel. No one is arguing that aluminum alloy is better than steel for the 2011 platform. But the $1000 street price is the story of this gun. It won't appeal to people who want a 1911 with a steel frame. And that's perfectly fine.

Realistically I think the question is whether or not Kimber can make this gun out of steel and maintain the price point. Without seeing the BoM I would suspect that they are unable to do so at the margins they require because the process, materials, and American labor costs make that impossible. They could have made it out of steel and simply increased the price. But the price point is the headline here. It's what got all of the youtubers to cover it.

they literally make it in other calibers in steel at that price point. sounds like we are in agreement that it would be better in steel. Basically every review says "its nice but it would be better in steel"

 

[RustVendor]

I’ll bite. I THINK it is better n Aluminum for a 9mm. I don’t need a 9mm pistol weighing close to an ultra light rifle in my opinion.

that's because you don't shoot in a way that it would matter. If this were in steel it would be about 36oz with the polymer grip and would be fantastic.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

that's because you don't shoot in a way that it would matter. If this were in steel it would be about 36oz with the polymer grip and would be fantastic.

Because I’m old and do not run and gun anymore, especially after injuries. But back in the day aluminum, then polymers are great for 9mm. I saved steel frames for .45acp.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

that's because you don't shoot in a way that it would matter. If this were in steel it would be about 36oz with the polymer grip and would be fantastic.

I think our big difference is training, real world experience and mindset.

Guns to me are just tools. While I have had to take training/classes, etc in military, and professional jobs after, I only ever trained/competed in tactical style shooting scenarios with gear, packs, physical and mental exertion, etc. In real world scenarios ounces equals pounds, especially when you’re only foot mobile.

Competition shooting is different, you drive to the range, have coffee or energy drink, put belt on with tricked out holsters, guns, etc then run courses like a madman for a small window of time.

 

[No_glonks]

Gentlemen, just wanted to remind you … Kimber 2k11 has steel frame
I think all discussion about aluminum started when someone mentioned DS Warrior

 

[CAshooter]

That's what 2011s are best for, shooting matches, not carrying.

In YOUR opinion. I know, I mean work with, plenty of people like me that do both with Staccato's.

A 2011 style pistol makes a poor "duty gun" in general

Again, in your opinion. I've carried my Staccato for almost two years. I clean it about every 3-4 months or every 500 rounds. That's my personal limit. I know some people shoot more before cleaning it, some shoot less. Maintenance has been non-existent for me so far. Both the gun and the six magazines that came with it. I've heard of "tuning magazines" for competition shooting articles from years past, when Staccato was STI. But nowadays, the 2011 mag issue is pretty much a non-factor. But I've run mine "stock" since I got it. I put an SRO on it, but the springs, magazines, and all the internals are the same since the day I picked it up. Sometimes tinkering with your gun can screw things up. Sometimes it makes it better.

If you were to lube up a Staccato (can't speak to any other 2011's) and a striker-fired gun of your choice and fired thousands of rounds through each until they failed, the striker-fired might last longer. Which is why I have lube and cleaning supplies, to keep it running.

So run what makes you happy and let others do the same.

 

[CAshooter]

Almost forgot, my DUTY gun is a C2 with *GASP* an ALUMINUM FRAME!! *sobs in "it works for me"*

 

[Gawernator]

You are making a lot of weird assumptions, no one needs a heavy gun to shoot accurately, they want one because they are more stable to shoot fast and accurate in a match setting. Nobody here is talking about someone slow firing at the static range. That's what 2011s are best for, shooting matches, not carrying. I personally carry my 5" m&p sometimes so sure, it's possible and it's not that bad. But I got a compact to put on my permit though because it's better to carry and a few less ozs. I can shoot it basically as well but the 5" m&p has a very nice recoil impulse that is hard to beat. so the question remains, if they want it to be a gun you carry, why would they make a lightweight 5"? it would make much more sense to make a smaller gun that's better to carry. A 2011 style pistol makes a poor "duty gun" in general for more reasons than we have discussed here, the biggest being they aren't nearly as reliable as any of the top plastic striker guns. The gun itself requires tuning and maintenance with springs lasting only a few thousand rounds sometimes. The extractor requires tuning, the magazines require tuning, you have to run them wet, depending on which guide rod you run they all have different problems. 2011s and surely cheap 2011s require a lot of attention which makes them poor guns to rely on when there are myriad other less expensive ones that will go bang without even lube.

Staccato seems to be pretty popular for duty carry now