Many CZs may fall off DOJ Roster

[NorCALSpeed]

27........

Does that mean you can sell them PPT to someone but also handle the FFL duties? That would be a very funny paperwork sandwich.

 

[2azone]

Does that mean you can sell them PPT to someone but also handle the FFL duties? That would be a very funny paperwork sandwich.

That's the plan!

 

[Dvrjon]

That's the plan!

I’m pretty vague on the rules surrounding FFL activities, so I really don’t understand how this works without the transfer to you not looking like a straw man transaction.

 

[dickasauraswreks]

I’m pretty vague on the rules surrounding FFL activities, so I really don’t understand how this works without the transfer to you not looking like a straw man transaction.

It's simple, he purchases 27 as an individual from his business and slowly find out that he doesn't like each one at 5 per year

 

[NorCALSpeed]

That's the plan!

You're a clever man. Well played.

 

[westsidearms]

It's simple, he purchases 27 as an individual from his business and slowly find out that he doesn't like each one at 5 per year

Here is an interesting concept. He cannot sell that many guns PPT because he is a dealer. Except he is a dealer. Can they prosecute you for dealing without a license when you have a license? Probably only because I think we you look at the PPT Penal Code, it might say something about they do not apply to dealer sales. This might be worth looking into. It is more work than I want to perform right this second.

Also, every one of my five wholesalers is sold out of CZ 01199. It appears everyone panic bought them. I hope everyone gets them out of DROS before the plug is pulled.

Which if CZ is smart, they say that model is still on the roster and their fee is paid until the end of the year. Do not import any of the new ones under the same SKU. It is like the Glock 36. They do not make the PRK version, but it is still on the roster.

 

[taperxz]

To my knowledge, DOJ doesn’t care how old stock is. (That’s why CZ is directing a halt to distribution and sales.) They’ll drop the gun from the list and at that moment, notify FFLs that all of those guns are off-Roster. That would appear to put the FFL at complete risk in completing the transfer until a specific identifier of good/bad guns is provided.

All is pure speculation on my part, but a few years ago there was confusion on new Colt National Match pistols being exempted. FFLs were selling them until DOJ quashed it, denied approval of sales and directed FFLs to stop sales and retrieve the guns. (Not sure how successful that retrieval was).

That’s actually not true about the NM gun. DOJ never issued a bulletin in regards to its C&R status.
More than likely because the DOJ didn’t want to get sued over this.
They just told dealers not to verbally.
Most dealers know that DOJ can screw with you in different ways.

 

[-D.M.-]

God F-ing damnit. I was holding off buying an SP-01, hoping the bull 11% sin tax would be enjoined or blocked.

F-.

I hate this commie hole.

 

[-D.M.-]

That's the plan!

Curious how this will/would work if I was to buy an SP-01 from y'all as a PPT....

 

[taperxz]

I’m pretty vague on the rules surrounding FFL activities, so I really don’t understand how this works without the transfer to you not looking like a straw man transaction.

Yes! The ATF frowns on this as a type of straw purchase to get around state law.
They’re not gonna raise a stink over a couple pistols but doing a bunch and then PPTing them is potentially dealing without a license especially for corporate owners who are considered employees of the corporation. The state could care less since the CFD is issued to individuals regardless of corporate status of business.

 

[2azone]

Yes! The ATF frowns on this as a type of straw purchase to get around state law.
They’re not gonna raise a stink over a couple pistols but doing a bunch and then PPTing them is potentially dealing without a license especially for corporate owners who are considered employees of the corporation. The state could care less since the CFD is issued to individuals regardless of corporate status of business.

Yep. But I have 3 FFLs, one of which is a sole prop so I could if I wanted. I will just sell them as dealer handgun sales till they fall off the roster, and when or if they do they will be in my name

 

[Dvrjon]

That’s actually not true about the NM gun. DOJ never issued a bulletin in regards to its C&R status.
More than likely because the DOJ didn’t want to get sued over this.
They just told dealers not to verbally.
Most dealers know that DOJ can screw with you in different ways.

To clarify, I didn’t say DOJ issued a bulletin on the NMs. I said:

…DOJ quashed it, denied approval of sales and directed FFLs to stop sales and retrieve the guns.

In the CZ issue under discussion, CZ has issued the notice, not DOJ.

Best.

 

[taperxz]

Yep. But I have 3 FFLs, one of which is a sole prop so I could if I wanted. I will just sell them as dealer handgun sales till they fall off the roster, and when or if they do they will be in my name

You can do whatever you want. ATF will tell you it’s a violation because you’re trying to get around state law
Don’t ask me, ask your ATF Rep

 

[taperxz]

To clarify, I didn’t say DOJ issued a bulletin on the NMs. I said:

In the CZ issue under discussion, CZ has issued the notice, not DOJ.

Best.

Yes, I but I never received anything from CZ
Minus a bulletin from DOJ, this is a nothing burger.
As long as the models are listed on the drop down, they can be DROsed and any DROS will be allowed to complete and picked up DOJ won’t do jack
There’s to many repercussions forDOJ in courts these days that can now be used against them

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

You can do whatever you want. ATF will tell you it’s a violation because you’re trying to get around state law
Don’t ask me, ask your ATF Rep

He can always take them into his possession and then place them on consignment at a later date. Avoids the hassle of the PPT limit cap and avoids scrutiny of "acting as a dealer without a license" as a private individual. For all we know, maybe he wanted to make them all cajunized and then at a later date decided he didn't want to invest all that money and just decided to place them on consignment.

 

[taperxz]

He can always take them into his possession and then place them on consignment at a later date. Avoids the hassle of the PPT limit cap and avoids scrutiny of "acting as a dealer without a license" as a private individual. For all we know, maybe he wanted to make them all cajunized and then at a later date decided he didn't want to invest all that money and just decided to place them on consignment.

Like I said, you can do whatever you want but CFD holders are exempt from the PPT limit anyway. It’s ATF that says we are circumventing the state law by taking let’s say 15 pistols to avoid the state roster requirements.
Like I said, ask your ATF auditor

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

Like I said, you can do whatever you want but CFD holders are exempt from the PPT limit anyway. It’s ATF that says we are circumventing the state law by taking let’s say 15 pistols to avoid the state roster requirements.
Like I said, ask your ATF auditor

But that argument would not apply here as they are currently listed on the roster and no circumvention has occured as of this moment. The fact of the matter is that it's on the roster now and it will continue to be on the roster until the state removes it. I'm not disagreeing that the ATF doesn't like circumvention by a dealer, but I'm pointing out that currently it is not circumvention as it is a rostered and legally sellable pistol as of this moment. He can do as he pleases with them and then offload them at a later date if he decides to.

 

[taperxz]

But that argument would not apply here as they are currently listed on the roster and no circumvention has occured as of this moment. The fact of the matter is that it's on the roster now and it will continue to be on the roster until the state removes it. I'm not disagreeing that the ATF doesn't like circumvention by a dealer, but I'm pointing out that currently it is not circumvention as it is a rostered and legally sellable pistol as of this moment. He can do as he pleases with them and then offload them at a later date if he decides to.

I get all that but are the actual guns that are rostered the same ones he has in possession??
I understand why you are grasping at straws to make this this look legal but you’re just doing that and I know this sucks.
I’m just point out the true legal issues involved. More than likely DOJ won’t care but we did have an ATF auditor point this out about an HK we had on consignment.

 

[taperxz]

But that argument would not apply here as they are currently listed on the roster and no circumvention has occured as of this moment. The fact of the matter is that it's on the roster now and it will continue to be on the roster until the state removes it. I'm not disagreeing that the ATF doesn't like circumvention by a dealer, but I'm pointing out that currently it is not circumvention as it is a rostered and legally sellable pistol as of this moment. He can do as he pleases with them and then offload them at a later date if he decides to.

Glock 36 Gen 3 is on the roster too. Are you going to DROS one of those too?

 

[taperxz]

But that argument would not apply here as they are currently listed on the roster and no circumvention has occured as of this moment. The fact of the matter is that it's on the roster now and it will continue to be on the roster until the state removes it. I'm not disagreeing that the ATF doesn't like circumvention by a dealer, but I'm pointing out that currently it is not circumvention as it is a rostered and legally sellable pistol as of this moment. He can do as he pleases with them and then offload them at a later date if he decides to.

Just remember one thing. If ATF considers this as a Straw Purchase to circumvent state law in some way and they have a hard on for a particular shop, does that shop want to be opening themselves up to the word “STRAW PURCHASE” in a time where ATF is actively trying to find reasons to shut down FFL’s?