P320 repeatable discharge without a screw

[rockchomper]

It’s beginning.

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Dang!! I’d love to see longer video on this with an explanation!

 

[rfgCA]

How could it? We know there is a problem. It’s been documented dozens of times with the same model of firearm. Sig is saying it’s user error and all the fan boys are buying it up. we know there’s an issue, Sig refuses to admit.

If glocks, springfields, rugers, Smith and Wessons, Caniks, and for F-ssake, even Hi points were going off at the level of the 320s, we’re going off with any amount of regularity it would be documented.

It could go the other way once it is determined, and publicly known, through a meticulous examination of facts by experts in a setting that provides the right for both sides to vigorously defend each other's arguments.

AKA: Court... and not backyard experiments on youtube and comments on Social Media.

So far SIG has successfully defended and won 10 out of 12 of its P320 lawsuits in COURT.

 

[bootcamp]

It’s beginning.

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Well, he has a tool in his left hand that is manipulating something behind the slide. I also think anyone testing needs to have the gun fully assembled. A true smoking gun is getting the striker to go off without any tool manipulation other than maybe your hand to jostle the slide to mimick a holstered weapon being moved around.

Yes, I absolutely agree that even if the trigger is 1-2mm partially depressed and the slide is jostled that it SHOULD NOT go off under any circumstances but that leaves the door open for Sig to sue the holster manufacturers for partially depressing the triggers.

 

[Gunsforevery1]

Well, he has a tool in his left hand that is manipulating something behind the slide. I also think anyone testing needs to have the gun fully assembled. A true smoking gun is getting the striker to go off without any tool manipulation other than maybe your hand to jostle the slide to mimick a holstered weapon being moved around.

Yes, I absolutely agree that even if the trigger is 1-2mm partially depressed and the slide is jostled that it SHOULD NOT go off under any circumstances but that leaves the door open for Sig to sue the holster manufacturers for partially depressing the triggers.

When you don’t have a barrel in the slide (in any gun) the slide needs to be pressed forward otherwise the spring from the striker pushes the slide back about 1/4inch. I’m unaware of what the tool could be or how it could affect the test but again, this is more evidence in that direction.

 

[GoldensRule]

Wait a second, you were able to depress the trigger 1MM, then release the trigger completely then get it to fire by manipulating the slide???? The trigger was NOT depressed AT ALL when the striker released?!?!?! that's a smoking gun! Post a video and that will go viral more than any other video being posted!

"Smoking gun"...... Punny...

 

[Gunsforevery1]

It could go the other way once it is determined, and publicly known, through a meticulous examination of facts by experts in a setting that provides the right for both sides to vigorously defend each other's arguments.

AKA: Court... and not backyard experiments on youtube and comments on Social Media.

So far SIG has successfully defended and won 10 out of 12 of its P320 lawsuits in COURT.

Were they cases that actually went to trial with experts testifying or were they cases that the courts dropped or paid out with no fault being given?

That makes a huge difference. If I get a judge to toss out my lawsuit against you, you “win” and “successfully defended” against me.

I sued the sellers of my current home. They paid us money, we agreed, dropped the suit, and they took no blame. Did they win because they didn’t have a judgement against them and we dropped the suit against them? Or did I win because I took money from them but also signed paperwork stating they had no blame for the issues?

 

[rfgCA]

Were they cases that actually went to trial with experts testifying or were they cases that the courts dropped or paid out with no fault being given?

That makes a huge difference. If I get a judge to toss out my lawsuit against you, you “win” and “successfully defended” against me.

I sued the sellers of my current home. They paid us money, we agreed, dropped the suit, and they took no blame. Did they win because they didn’t have a judgement against them and we dropped the suit against them? Or did I win because I took money from them but also signed paperwork stating they had no blame for the issues?

Sig Sauer has actually prevailed in 13 legal cases where a judge or jury ruled they weren't liable for any injuries. This included the early drop safety lawsuits.

They have also successfully defended themselves in P320 cases 18 times by dismissal (as of March 2025)

 

[Gunsforevery1]

Sig Sauer has actually prevailed in 13 legal cases where a judge or jury ruled they weren't liable for any injuries. This included the early drop safety lawsuits.

They have also successfully defended themselves in P320 cases 18 times by dismissal (as of March 2025)

Some quick searching shows they’ve also settled two cases out of court for injuries and one recent case in June 2024 a court removed punitive damages, but also found sig liable for injury.

It looks like it’s gone both ways. I’d also like to know how many of those cases that were dismissed were dismissed as a result of legislation that prevents you from suing a weapons manufacturer or dismissed because there was no real injuries. Having a gun go off but not causing an injury wouldn’t mean you can have a successful lawsuit.

 

[GoldensRule]

Some quick searching shows they’ve also settled two cases out of court for injuries and one recent case in June 2024 a court removed punitive damages, but also found sig liable for injury.

It looks like it’s gone both ways. I’d also like to know how many of those cases that were dismissed were dismissed as a result of legislation that prevents you from suing a weapons manufacturer.

Not an attorney and I don't even play one on TV, that said, I'm pretty sure the PLCAA only shields them from damages resulting from criminal or unlawful misuse of their products. Pretty sure they can still be held liable for negligence in manufacturing or design.

 

[GoldensRule]

I just contacted my friend who owns all the 320s, we will try to replicate that very soon.

Keep in mind, I was doing this manually without any type of measuring devices. The right way to do it would be like the guy in the video who mounted the gun in a CNC machine and carefully measured the trigger pull. I guess you could also use a digital vernier caliper to measure the pull. In my case, it seems like something in the action is "catching" for lack of a better word, even though I didn't feel or hear it. There would have to be something catching for me to be able to release the trigger and manipulate the slide and have it go off.

As a side note, I wish everyone including companies could just admit when they are wrong about something. I stopped digging in my heals around the time I turned 20 and life became so much easier.

 

[M_N04H]

That's what she said

 

[ugimports]

Well, he has a tool in his left hand that is manipulating something behind the slide. I also think anyone testing needs to have the gun fully assembled. A true smoking gun is getting the striker to go off without any tool manipulation other than maybe your hand to jostle the slide to mimick a holstered weapon being moved around.

Yes, I absolutely agree that even if the trigger is 1-2mm partially depressed and the slide is jostled that it SHOULD NOT go off under any circumstances but that leaves the door open for Sig to sue the holster manufacturers for partially depressing the triggers.

Sig has continued to argue that a trigger pull will cause it to fire. I don't recall them saying how far the trigger needs to be pulled so 1mm technically would still be a trigger pull.

 

[bootcamp]

Sig has continued to argue that a trigger pull will cause it to fire. I don't recall them saying how far the trigger needs to be pulled so 1mm technically would still be a trigger pull.

Based on Sig's last communication, I can already see them trying to weasle their way out of this. Need to hold them accountable about the slide causing it to fire when partially depressed.

 

[Gunsforevery1]

Sig has continued to argue that a trigger pull will cause it to fire. I don't recall them saying how far the trigger needs to be pulled so 1mm technically would still be a trigger pull.

that’s what I said in my video lol. They fail to mention how far the trigger must be pulled before it can fire.

 

[Gunsforevery1]

Based on Sig's last communication, I can already see them trying to weasle their way out of this. Need to hold them accountable about the slide causing it to fire when partially depressed.

I referenced their email and how they said “it won’t fire without pulling the trigger” but failed to leave out how far the trigger must be pulled.

 

[rfgCA]

that’s what I said in my video lol. They fail to mention how far the trigger must be pulled before it can fire.

Which manufacturers go out and tell their users how many mm they should pull the trigger before it goes off?

That is pretty far out. If you don't want the gun to go off, don't pull the trigger. It's not rocket science.

 

[Gunsforevery1]

Which manufacturers go out and tell their users how many mm they should pull the trigger before it goes off?

That is pretty far out. If you don't want the gun to go off, don't pull the trigger. It's not rocket science.

Glock, for one does. They even say it’s about 5mm of travel before their safety is disengaged.

This is what Sig has said
“The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear.”

Not “completely moved to the rear”, not “pulled to the rear”, not “fully towards the rear” but simple “moved to the rear”.

What I and others have done is “moved” the trigger to the “rear”. Sig will argue their gun is working as designed based on our tests because the trigger was “moved” to the rear.

Want to know what Glock says? They say “pulled FULLY to the rear”

“When the trigger slack is taken up to the first pressure point by pulling it rearward about 0.2 in. / 5mm, the trigger bar raises and disengages the firing pin safety and the firing pin is placed under additional tension.

When the trigger is pulled fully to the rear, the trigger bar separates from the end of the firing pin and drops down. This causes the firing pin to release and move forward under pressure to strike the primer of the cartridge in the chamber, thereby causing the pistol to fire.”

Page 11-12

https://us.glock.com/en/-/media/Global/US/old/US-Site/83-Downloadable-Materials/2024/GLOCK_Owners_Manual_G17_48_040424.ashx

I just find it hilarious. The smart ass sig fan boy comment of “if you don’t want your gun to go off, don’t pull the trigger”. It’s cool to know that you find it acceptable for a gun to go off when the trigger isn’t completely pulled the rear. You’re perfectly fine with the gun firing even when you’ve only pulled the trigger half the distance it was intended to be pulled.

 

[GoldensRule]

Which manufacturers go out and tell their users how many mm they should pull the trigger before it goes off?

That is pretty far out. If you don't want the gun to go off, don't pull the trigger. It's not rocket science.

Not that simple. In a cold environment you might be wearing heavy gloves, insert your finger between the guard and the shoe and that could move the trigger .09 of an inch (2 mm). This is a silly debate, the freakin' gun shouldn't discharge without an intentional, full pull of the trigger.

 

[rfgCA]

I just find it hilarious. The smart ass sig fan boy comment of “if you don’t want your gun to go off, don’t pull the trigger”. It’s cool to know that you find it acceptable for a gun to go off when the trigger isn’t completely pulled the rear. You’re perfectly fine with the gun firing even when you’ve only pulled the trigger half the distance it was intended to be pulled.

Thanks for calling me a "smart ass Sig fan boy."

I know I'm interrupting your YouTube ambitions, but your accusations against SIG are serious accusations.

Let's stick to facts and not childish name calling, ok?

#1) You say Glock says "pull trigger FULLY to the rear." --- show us where it says that, please. Especially the word FULLY.

#2) Any other manufacturers you can name (and show us proof) that explicitly states that a trigger must be FULLY pulled to the rear to make it fire?

 

[rfgCA]

Not that simple. In a cold environment you might be wearing heavy gloves, insert your finger between the guard and the shoe and that could move the trigger .09 of an inch (2 mm). This is a silly debate, the freakin' gun shouldn't discharge without an intentional, full pull of the trigger.

Few things are more simple than "Do not pull trigger if you don't want the gun to fire."