P320 repeatable discharge without a screw

[DJD100]

the only sigs worth a are their Long guns and hammer fired guns.... that is it!!!!!

Nah, the P365 is a totally different design and it isn't having any of the P320's UD problems.

 

[M_N04H]

Nah, the P365 is a totally different design and it isn't having any of the P320's UD problems.

Yea I was worried about this but I haven't found anything even close to what's happening with the 320

 

[rfgCA]

No one is “playing” with guns, but they are getting shot by them when the trigger isn’t fully pressed, but I guess that is “working” according to sig because all that needs to be done to fire it is to “move” the trigger.

Watch and learn how to replicate what you just did with a GLOCK

 

[cali_jazz]

Testing lot's of striker-fired guns similar to WGP, they all go off without pulling the trigger.

 

[rfgCA]

Shockingly, most guns go off when you pull the trigger?

This thread aged pretty quickly.

 

[Gunsforevery1]

Shockingly, most guns go off when you pull the trigger?

This thread aged pretty quickly.

I was wrong.

I’ll take my beatings now.

 

[Geonator]

If you have your finger or anything touching the trigger and it goes off... thats a user error LOL.. dont touch the trigger until you're ready to delete... simple as that SMH... pull the trigger and it goes BOOM... WHOWOULDTHUNK...

 

[SteamedHams]

If you have your finger or anything touching the trigger and it goes off... thats a user error LOL.. dont touch the trigger until you're ready to delete... simple as that SMH... pull the trigger and it goes BOOM... WHOWOULDTHUNK...

That's not the concern. The concern is that if the margin for error really is just 1mm, things like poor tolerances or contaminants could affect the internals enough to exceed that 1mm threshold, in which case your finger wouldn't need to touch the trigger to have the same effect. Imagine if something prevented your trigger shoe from fulling resetting back to the original position by just a millimeter or two.

My question is whether or not that threshold really is 1mm.

 

[SteamedHams]

Testing lot's of striker-fired guns similar to WGP, they all go off without pulling the trigger.

Feels like the results are actually detrimental to Sig. Yeah, other guns go off too, but the Glock required 6x more trigger movement than the P320 for it to go off. That's 6x greater margin of errror to account for tolerances and other irregularities.

 

[Gunsforevery1]

If you have your finger or anything touching the trigger and it goes off... thats a user error LOL.. dont touch the trigger until you're ready to delete... simple as that SMH... pull the trigger and it goes BOOM... WHOWOULDTHUNK...

That’s how you think guns should work?

If you partially pull the trigger it should fire?

 

[DB2896]

That's not the concern. The concern is that if the margin for error really is just 1mm, things like poor tolerances or contaminants could affect the internals enough to exceed that 1mm threshold, in which case your finger wouldn't need to touch the trigger to have the same effect. Imagine if something prevented your trigger shoe from fulling resetting back to the original position by just a millimeter or two.

My question is whether or not that threshold really is 1mm.

According to the best video I've seen (the one done by a machinist with the gun mounted to his mill) it's WAY more than 1mm.

He doesn't give the distance traveled before hitting the wall. So all his data shows what happens AFTER you already pull the trigger multiple mm's and take up all slack, bringing the trigger to the wall.

From the wall to release of the striker he measured 2.8mm of movement.

Then, he illustrates that if you pull the trigger 2.3mm and manipulate the slide you can get the striker to release. Meaning, you have to pull the trigger 82% past the wall before it can release with slide manipulation. But remember, this is just past the wall, and doesn't include any of that slack before the wall. My P320 has at least 4-5mm of travel before you hit the wall. So in order to have an UD you'd theoretically need to pull the trigger back at least 6-7 mm until slide manipulation could cause the UD. That's something like 93% of the full trigger pull. IMO, if you are pulling a trigger 93%, to within 0.5mm of FULL trigger pull you should be expecting that gun to go off.

Maybe there are other issues with these P320's. There certainly seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence about some amount of risk to them going off. But this slide manipulation striker release that's the hot topic at the moment sure doesn't seem to be causing guns to go off without someone or some thing pulling the trigger.

 

[faraway_md_85]

That's not the concern. The concern is that if the margin for error really is just 1mm, things like poor tolerances or contaminants could affect the internals enough to exceed that 1mm threshold, in which case your finger wouldn't need to touch the trigger to have the same effect. Imagine if something prevented your trigger shoe from fulling resetting back to the original position by just a millimeter or two.

My question is whether or not that threshold really is 1mm.

That's actually an incredibly wrong way to look at it. The actuality is that it requires pulling the trigger up to 99% of a shot and then that 1% being random slide movement that some how releases the striker before the final 1% trigger pull is executed. In real world scenarios that'll never happen as if you're going through the motion to pull the trigger 99% of the way, you've already intended to discharge the firearm. Now had these 'test' done with the gun at rest and only 1mm from 0 trigger play discharges the firearm that would be an entirely different story. It's the equivalent of someone ingesting 11.5g of tylenol and then dying while ingesting the another 500mg tablet and people screaming "tylenol kills with only 1 tablet!!" while ignoring the fact that they've ingest 11.5g prior.

These videos are stupid at best, "it's not a screw anymore!!! it's now a zip tie!! sig UD!!!" "It's not a black screw anymore! it's now a red screw so it's difFERenT!"

 

[Gunsforevery1]

That's actually an incredibly wrong way to look at it. The actuality is that it requires pulling the trigger up to 99% of a shot and then that 1% being random slide movement that some how releases the striker before the final 1% trigger pull is executed. In real world scenarios that'll never happen as if you're going through the motion to pull the trigger 99% of the way, you've already intended to discharge the firearm. Now had these 'test' done with the gun at rest and only 1mm from 0 trigger play discharges the firearm that would be an entirely different story. It's the equivalent of someone ingesting 11.5g of tylenol and then dying while ingesting the another 500mg tablet and people screaming "tylenol kills with only 1 tablet!!" while ignoring the fact that they've ingest 11.5g prior.

These videos are stupid at best, "it's not a screw anymore!!! it's now a zip tie!! sig UD!!!" "It's not a black screw anymore! it's now a red screw so it's difFERenT!"

The screw vs zip tie was in reference to everyone initially crying and saying “don’t jam a screw into your gun and it won’t happen!”

 

[faraway_md_85]

The screw vs zip tie was in reference to everyone initially crying and saying “don’t jam a screw into your gun and it won’t happen!”

How does the zip tie prove these people "crying" wrong? Will these 'testers" use something else next such as a tooth pick, a q tip, a pokemon card folded over 10 times and jammed in there? I mean the video you posted is misleadingly altered to make it look like the gun is unaltered by editing out the portion of the guy zip tying the gun.

 

[9mmContagion]

That's actually an incredibly wrong way to look at it. The actuality is that it requires pulling the trigger up to 99% of a shot and then that 1% being random slide movement that some how releases the striker before the final 1% trigger pull is executed. In real world scenarios that'll never happen as if you're going through the motion to pull the trigger 99% of the way, you've already intended to discharge the firearm. Now had these 'test' done with the gun at rest and only 1mm from 0 trigger play discharges the firearm that would be an entirely different story. It's the equivalent of someone ingesting 11.5g of tylenol and then dying while ingesting the another 500mg tablet and people screaming "tylenol kills with only 1 tablet!!" while ignoring the fact that they've ingest 11.5g prior.

These videos are stupid at best, "it's not a screw anymore!!! it's now a zip tie!! sig UD!!!" "It's not a black screw anymore! it's now a red screw so it's difFERenT!"

There’s a video with one on a manual mill, where it is repeated with ~ 0.080”. That’s just over 2mm or just over 1/16”. Or in my profession which is referred to as a C-Hair

 

[faraway_md_85]

There’s a video with one on a manual mill, where it is repeated with ~ 0.080”. That’s just over 2mm or just over 1/16”. Or in my profession which is referred to as a C-Hair

yes I saw that one, that's actually a very good one and has little to no bias. The video succinctly shows that in order for it to have any form of "UD" you need to take it to basically where you intend to fire the gun. Way different from the post "sig UD is a time bomb!!!" Shows that you have to get within a very minute space for it to happen, like i've mentioned in real world scenarios it'll never occur. You would need to go through the motion of intending to fire the gun, only to stop within that small window, then jiggle the slide. Who in the real world does that? Do you know anyone that pulls the trigger almost all the way, then stops and jiggles the slide and is totally shocked that it went off?

 

[socalgunowner909]

yes I saw that one, that's actually a very good one and has little to no bias. The video succinctly shows that in order for it to have any form of "UD" you need to take it to basically where you intend to fire the gun. Way different from the post "sig UD is a time bomb!!!" Shows that you have to get within a very minute space for it to happen, like i've mentioned in real world scenarios it'll never occur. You would need to go through the motion of intending to fire the gun, only to stop within that small window, then jiggle the slide. Who in the real world does that? Do you know anyone that pulls the trigger almost all the way, then stops and jiggles the slide and is totally shocked that it went off?

After trying this on my 320 last night and having the same thoughts as you. I had to hit the wall and travel past that to make the gun fire by manipulating the slide. And if it did not go off i had to screw the screw in more to take up more room in the trigger pull and then it would go off. I do feel like a significant amount of the trigger pull has to happen for the slide to set off.

Now would i ever carry this gun after all of this... NO.... But it wouldnt be my first choice anyways. My hk usp compact in 9mm is way better of a carry gun for many reasons.

 

[9mmContagion]

yes I saw that one, that's actually a very good one and has little to no bias. The video succinctly shows that in order for it to have any form of "UD" you need to take it to basically where you intend to fire the gun. Way different from the post "sig UD is a time bomb!!!" Shows that you have to get within a very minute space for it to happen, like i've mentioned in real world scenarios it'll never occur. You would need to go through the motion of intending to fire the gun, only to stop within that small window, then jiggle the slide. Who in the real world does that? Do you know anyone that pulls the trigger almost all the way, then stops and jiggles the slide and is totally shocked that it went off?

My concern is dirt, grime, lint, etc. doesn’t take much for 1/16”. If the trigger hadn’t reset 100% from the last time it fired due to a little piece of lint, then it’s holstered… could be no bueno

 

[faraway_md_85]

My concern is dirt, grime, lint, etc. doesn’t take much for 1/16”. If the trigger hadn’t reset 100% from the last time it fired due to a little piece of lint, then it’s holstered… could be no bueno

would dirt, grime, lint account for 90% of the trigger pull? Does putting a gun in a holster pull the trigger to 98% or 95% of the action of firing a gun? If it does, I wouldn't want to holster any gun much less a sig. You keep saying "but lint can account for that ~1 -2 mm of space!" while neglecting the fact that you still need to pull the trigger the majority of the way (~6 mm? I'm throwing this number out).

 

[Gunsforevery1]

How does the zip tie prove these people "crying" wrong? Will these 'testers" use something else next such as a tooth pick, a q tip, a pokemon card folded over 10 times and jammed in there? I mean the video you posted is misleadingly altered to make it look like the gun is unaltered by editing out the portion of the guy zip tying the gun.

“Don’t put a screw into the gun”.

I did not put anything into the gun.