PSA: First Amendment Auditors

[Scubabugdiver]

Best thing to do is avoid that location. Don’t shop there. Go somewhere else. If more patrons followed suit, it will soon become the store’s problem. And with the lack of shoppers/sales for even 1 day, corporate will definitely do something about it. They most likely have a few big wig attorneys on the payroll doing slip and fall cases all day.

 

[Jimi Jah]

You have the right to remain silent. Ignore them, don't make eye contact and go about your business. Treat them like they are not there.

Like internet trolls they will give up without any reaction. Too many idiots, not enough time.

 

[raellic]

Yep, I had a day and night to think it over, and I'm maintaining my view that the world would be a better place if more people fought back by filming these whacked out lunatics and shaming them online. They are in the wrong here and I'm not going to surrender my right to peaceably argue with people just because I have a license to carry. We know who these guys are now, and I'm thinking about legal options. Draegers filing a restraining order is the next logical step.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

Up 7

Yep, I had a day and night to think it over, and I'm maintaining my view that the world would be a better place if more people fought back by filming these whacked out lunatics and shaming them online. They are in the wrong here and I'm not going to surrender my right to peaceably argue with people just because I have a license to carry. We know who these guys are now, and I'm thinking about legal options. Draegers filing a restraining order is the next logical step.

I think you are severely over reacting to long standing protected activity.

 

[raellic]

Up 7

I think you are severely over reacting to long standing protected activity.

The video I posted is a tiny slice of the interactions yesterday-- they were shouting in old ladies' faces and aggressively following/chasing people, among other things. I'm reacting this way in part because over the last 20 years in law practice, I have seen less serious things than this prompt an arrest or charges, or restraining orders-- or all three.

 

[BillSmith]

raelic-

I agree that someone should confront those who are out-of-line in their approaching customers exiting this store. I have been that person in similar situations in the past.

Equally appalled by the lack of fortitude from law enforcement in these issues. Confrontations are ever escalating and can end up on the front page.

That said, I also agree that, given the nature of you being armed, you should specifically not be the one delivering messages to this group.

Take a Byrna, gas canister or other device if you want to deliver a counter to their actions. G'luck.

 

[raellic]

Here they are, in case anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/@iimpctmedia

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

Here they are, in case anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/@iimpctmedia

You are not seeing the forest for the trees. The mere fact that you think that they are trying to hide from your camera is silly. They know they are on all the cameras. Going to the location at the location and leaving the location. Them trying to avoid your camera is goading you into doing something that you shouldn't. The whole act is designed to make citizens business owners and cops make mistakes on camera. Yes, we saw your video. But you have to I think about their video of you, confronting them, leaving the area going back to your car, possibly your trunk and then coming back to the situation.

Quite honestly, this is rookie s*** that we have been dealing with for at least a decade. I'm surprised that you did not know about this.

 

[Z Arms LLC]

They're bums that rather bother people in public than work a job. They stir up then try to get lawsuit money. Saddest part is none of them actually care about upholding the constitution

 

[adrkwan]

Here they are, in case anyone is curious: https://www.youtube.com/@iimpctmedia

Just play music and inform the copyright holder that their IP is being infringed if the video gets posted. Three strikes within 90 days is deletion of their channel.

 

[raellic]

I get it, there are folks who would have handled this differently. But within the bounds of ordinary discretion, it's reasonable to film back people who are filming and harassing other people. The victims are not public figures-- they are victims for example with their kids or who are elderly, who have no other way to go into the store and who are completely surprised by this whacked out behavior. I even tell them twice at the beginning of the video from long range that I wasn't happy with the first video and I'm re-doing it. That is 100% true. I returned because I don't like what they are doing to other people, it's that simple. No one has the right to threaten violence or "macing the out of" someone for no legitimate reason.

 

[joefrank64k]

I get it, there are folks who would have handled this differently. But within the bounds of ordinary discretion, it's reasonable to film back people who are filming and harassing other people. The victims are not public figures-- they are victims for example with their kids or who are elderly, who have no other way to go into the store and who are completely surprised by this whacked out behavior. I even tell them twice at the beginning of the video from long range that I wasn't happy with the first video and I'm re-doing it. That is 100% true. I returned because I don't like what they are doing to other people, it's that simple. No one has the right to threaten violence or "macing the out of" someone for no legitimate reason.

Sorry, @raellic they got EXACTLY the reaction out of you that they hoped for.

The only thing better for them would’ve been if you’d also reacted physically (push, shove, etc).

But…their shots of you engaging, then walking away, then walking back, then engaging them AGAIN, and you getting absolutely nowhere are solid gold for their grift.

These dudes have been doing this stuff for years and years.

Bottom Line: They played you like a fiddle.

 

[shroom]

Just saw your video, missed it last night, interesting interaction for sure. I'm conflicted. On the one hand they're obviously well within their rights to film and be obnoxious s. On the other hand you're also within your right to walk up to them and film them. Are they in the right to threaten to pepper spray you?

I don't think pepper spraying someone can be classified as great bodily harm though? Doesn't that require injuries like broken bones, open wounds, gunshot wounds etc?

 

[nakatomi]

They’re not there to "audit" anything. They’re there to get a reaction.

The goal isn’t to be right. The goal is to get someone on camera losing their cool, stepping too close, saying the wrong thing or coming back for round two.

This is their product:


This is how they do it:


If you engage even calmly you’re giving them exactly what they showed up for. The more back-and-forth, the better the footage becomes.

That’s why this keeps happening. It works.

The only thing that actually kills it is when nothing happens.

The fact that this post exists gives them more traffic as this thread will blow up and everyone visits their Youtube (including me)

 

[adrkwan]

I don't think pepper spraying someone can be classified as great bodily harm though? Doesn't that require injuries like broken bones, open wounds, gunshot wounds etc?

Courts have found pepper spray to be a dangerous weapon.

Because in this case, pepper spray caused extreme pain and prolonged impairment of a bodily organ, it satisfied the definition of a dangerous weapon, and the district court correctly adjusted the sentence. See Bartolotta, 153 F.3d at 879 (holding that mace constituted a dangerous weapon on almost identical facts and resulting injury); Dukovich, 11 F.3d at 142 (same). Given the factual record, we reject the claim that pepper spray cannot be a dangerous weapon.

United States v. Neill, 166 F.3d 943, 950 (9th Cir. 1999).

 

[shermanatortank]

Ignore them.

If you want to mess with them, you can blare Disney copyrighted music near them on the sidewalk.

Youtube will take their video down faster than their mommy can bring them another plate of chicken tendies.

 

[adrkwan]

Ignore them.

If you want to mess with them, you can blare Disney copyrighted music near them on the sidewalk.

Youtube will take their video down faster than their mommy can bring them another plate of chicken tendies.

Yeah, Disney lawyers don't mess around.

 

[raellic]

I was contacted by a reporter for a local news outlet who saw this thread, and I was told that these guys did, in fact, pepper spray someone yesterday in Menlo Park-- and it was after my video, which I took at 10:41 a.m. The outlet may end up using my video in the online article. No one was apparently arrested in the subsequent incident, so it appears these guys succeeded in goading someone else into being pepper sprayed. Funny that the officer didn't mention that later in the day when I made the formal report, even though he was the officer for that incident.

I do appreciate the (conflicting) advice-- it's a tough situation overall, I would just ask folks to keep in mind that having a video makes it easy for everyone to second-guess the interaction from the comfort of their own computer instead of being in the middle of a fluid, ambiguous, and unfamiliar situation. Also, I'm an easy punching bag because my real name, website, email, and raw video are on here and everybody has their idea of what a lawyer is or should do in any situation. I personally would rather be an idealist than indifferent, so that informs my world view. I still have zero regrets, though of course I don't want to run into these whacked out nuts again. I'm not going to not shop at my favorite grocery store because of these jerks, so we'll see whether they ever come back.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

I was contacted by a reporter for a local news outlet who saw this thread, and I was told that these guys did, in fact, pepper spray someone yesterday in Menlo Park-- and it was after my video, which I took at 10:41 a.m. The outlet may end up using my video in the online article. No one was apparently arrested in the subsequent incident, so it appears these guys succeeded in goading someone else into being pepper sprayed. Funny that the officer didn't mention that later in the day when I made the formal report, even though he was the officer for that incident.

I do appreciate the (conflicting) advice-- it's a tough situation overall, I would just ask folks to keep in mind that having a video makes it easy for everyone to second-guess the interaction from the comfort of their own computer instead of being in the middle of a fluid, ambiguous, and unfamiliar situation. Also, I'm an easy punching bag because my real name, website, email, and raw video are on here and everybody has their idea of what a lawyer is or should do in any situation. I personally would rather be an idealist than indifferent, so that informs my world view. I still have zero regrets, though of course I don't want to run into these whacked out nuts again. I'm not going to not shop at my favorite grocery store because of these jerks, so we'll see whether they ever come back.

The problem is that you are acting like this is a novel situation. Its nothing new. Youre not saving anyone. Quite the opposite. Some of us(LEOs) been dealing with this for many years and many times thereover.

 

[Deleted member 6005]

I was contacted by a reporter for a local news outlet who saw this thread, and I was told that these guys did, in fact, pepper spray someone yesterday in Menlo Park-- and it was after my video, which I took at 10:41 a.m. The outlet may end up using my video in the online article. No one was apparently arrested in the subsequent incident, so it appears these guys succeeded in goading someone else into being pepper sprayed. Funny that the officer didn't mention that later in the day when I made the formal report, even though he was the officer for that incident.

I do appreciate the (conflicting) advice-- it's a tough situation overall, I would just ask folks to keep in mind that having a video makes it easy for everyone to second-guess the interaction from the comfort of their own computer instead of being in the middle of a fluid, ambiguous, and unfamiliar situation. Also, I'm an easy punching bag because my real name, website, email, and raw video are on here and everybody has their idea of what a lawyer is or should do in any situation. I personally would rather be an idealist than indifferent, so that informs my world view. I still have zero regrets, though of course I don't want to run into these whacked out nuts again. I'm not going to not shop at my favorite grocery store because of these jerks, so we'll see whether they ever come back.

The idea that you're a lawyer has nothing to do with my opinion. In my opinion you make poor decisions. But hey, you do you. When you have to have your staff defend your poor decisions, maybe you'll get it.