range experience with severe tennis elbow

[Trapper]

I’ve spent many months in physical therapy and have had nothing but positive experiences. They’ve been very honest about which injuries could benefit from therapy and others that required surgery. Always focusing on helping my body to heal itself, rather than shots, pills or quick fixes. My recommendation would be to connect with a good PT, trust the process, follow their recommendations, and work on long term recovery.

 

[Doboi88]

I’ve spent many months in physical therapy and have had nothing but positive experiences. They’ve been very honest about which injuries could benefit from therapy and others that required surgery. Always focusing on helping my body to heal itself, rather than shots, pills or quick fixes. My recommendation would be to connect with a good PT, trust the process, follow their recommendations, and work on long term recovery.

The main thing that stands out from what you said is “…connect with a good PT…”

So many PTs are burnt out and don’t treat what’s in front of them and only what they get from interview and documentation. Please, if you ever get a PT like that, run the other way!

Right now, I work at a skilled nursing facility and I hear patients telling me all the time that the other therapist never tries getting them up or anything. PTs are severely underpaid and overworked…I hate it too, but I love helping people. If the company I worked for paid overtime, I’d gladly work there more, but for me, my patients always come first and if my documentation is late, IDGAF

 

[Trapper]

My surgery was at Sutter Roseville but I’m using VA for physical therapy. I haven’t encountered any PTs with VA that seemed burnt out and my appointments never feel rushed. Guess that’s one benefit of having government issued injuries.

 

[chiroken007]

Peng Z, Zhang M, Li Y, Feng Z. Treatment of lateral epicondylitis with acupuncture and glucocorticoid: A retrospective cohort study. Medicine (Baltimore). 2020 Feb;99(8):e19227. doi: 10.1097/MD.0000000000019227. PMID: 32080120; PMCID: PMC7034677.

Your definition of evidence based medicine is assuming alternative care isn’t researched or to some degree validated by evidence. There are different tiers of care. Acupuncture, IASTM, Infrared LT, Ultrasound, Shockwave and PT being conservative methods. Then other methods such as PRP and surgery are necessary for severe cases.

“Real doctors” also refer patients for acupuncture, massage, and chiropractic for care. Yes.. specialist such as neurologist and orthopedic surgeons will refer patients to alternative medicine. Not just work comp doctors and PCPs.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Peng Z, Zhang M, Li Y, Feng Z. Treatment of lateral epicondylitis with acupuncture and glucocorticoid: A retrospective cohort study. Medicine (Baltimore). 2020 Feb;99(8):e19227. doi: 10.1097/MD.0000000000019227. PMID: 32080120; PMCID: PMC7034677.

Your definition of evidence based medicine is assuming alternative care isn’t researched or to some degree validated by evidence. There are different tiers of care. Acupuncture, IASTM, Infrared LT, Ultrasound, Shockwave and PT being conservative methods. Then other methods such as PRP and surgery are necessary for severe cases.

“Real doctors” also refer patients for acupuncture, massage, and chiropractic for care. Yes.. specialist such as neurologist and orthopedic surgeons will refer patients to alternative medicine. Not just work comp doctors and PCPs.

There's a reason it's called ALT med. Evidence-based medicine is just medicine.

Some light reading from Quackwatch for you about acupuncture:

https://quackwatch.org/related/acu/

Quackwatch is run by Stephen Barrett, M.D.
Enjoy and learn.

 

[chiroken007]

Quack watch is your source. My source is Pubmed. Which is more evidence based?

pubmed is THE evidence database.

I respect your opinion entirely.
I am just pointing out that your opinion isn’t as “evidence based” as you portray. Unless you know more than the neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons and insurance policies that refer to acupuncture.

 

[chiroken007]

Also. You should read this article.

TU YOUYOU - NobelPrize.org

Medicine laureate Tu Youyou turned to Chinese medical texts from the Zhou, Qing, and Han Dynasties to find a traditional cure for malaria, ultimately extracting a compound – artemisinin – that has saved millions of lives.

www.nobelprize.org

She won the Nobel prize in medicine for rediscovering a 2000 year old Chinese medicine remedy to malaria that saved tens of millions of lives. Was she foolish to research Chinese medicine to save tens of millions of lives?

 

[magoshands]

There's a reason it's called ALT med. Evidence-based medicine is just medicine.

Some light reading from Quackwatch for you about acupuncture:

https://quackwatch.org/related/acu/

Enjoy and learn.

Look i'll be the first to point and laugh at people trying to use crystals to arrange their chakras and meridians to treat serious medical conditions.

But there is legit use for some eastern medicine practices, even if the majority of therapeutic results comes from the placebo effect.

Someone very close to me had stage 4 cancer and the chemo/radiation therapy was rough on her. There was a concoction from a Asian herbal pharmacy that one of her clients referred her too. It was a mixture of herbs, fungi and wormwood(i think) that you would boil then drink. It helped dramatically raise her whiteblood count so she could spend time with her kids without worrying to much about getting sick. And she got a few more years to spend with her family before she passed.

Did the special herbs actually raise her white-blood cell count? Or was it that she believed that they would? Either way it worked.So IMO i do believe that there is SOME use for alternative medicine as a supplement to regular treatment.

 

[chiroken007]

There's a reason it's called ALT med. Evidence-based medicine is just medicine.

Some light reading from Quackwatch for you about acupuncture:

https://quackwatch.org/related/acu/

Quackwatch is run by Stephen Barrett, M.D.
Enjoy and learn.

I am reading your article. It’s actually quite flawed and clearly an emotionally driven article.

Just because someone is an MD doesn’t make them an expert. C’s get degrees.

I have personally corrected severe mistakes made by MD’s and saved lives as a Chiropractor. I work WITH medicine, WITH PT, WITH acupuncture, WITH naturopathy.

MD’s send patients to me because I get results. I send patients to MD when they need surgery or injections, MRI’s, labs to investigate more nefarious concerns. I recommend PT to my patients daily. I send patients to Acupuncture when their issue is rooted in emotion or impulse issues I can’t resolve.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Quack watch is your source. My source is Pubmed. Which is more evidence based?

pubmed is THE evidence database.

I respect your opinion entirely.
I am just pointing out that your opinion isn’t as “evidence based” as you portray. Unless you know more than the neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons and insurance policies that refer to acupuncture.

A lot of nonsense (including chiropractic) is covered by insurance, unfortunately. A lot of doctors decry chiro, especially straight chiro which doesn't involve regular P.T. modality. A lot of chiropractors push other nonsense, such as homeopathy.

Quackwatch is run by an M.D. and has been active for years.

People can do what they want, but evidence-based medicine (versus TCM or alt-med) is the best bet and should be the first stop.

For late-stage terminal diseases where it doesn't matter, then it's user preference and finding peace and comfort for the duration. Still better to know than not.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Also. You should read this article.

TU YOUYOU - NobelPrize.org

Medicine laureate Tu Youyou turned to Chinese medical texts from the Zhou, Qing, and Han Dynasties to find a traditional cure for malaria, ultimately extracting a compound – artemisinin – that has saved millions of lives.

www.nobelprize.org

She won the Nobel prize in medicine for rediscovering a 2000 year old Chinese medicine remedy to malaria that saved tens of millions of lives. Was she foolish to research Chinese medicine to save tens of millions of lives?

If it works and is double-blind tested then it's just medicine. This is true for all medicine.

The effective ingredients in aspirin comes from the bark of a willow tree, but we can synthesize it and control for purity and dose now. You wouldn't just throw some willow bark in a glass of water to steep and call it good.

Growth hormone is now synthesized with no more need to use human cadaver pituitary glands (crushed). We control for dose and purity and remove all risk of contracting CJD.

Of course most medications may come from nature, but the testing is done using peer review and blinded studies, with rigorous testing before public release. This is all part of the scientific method.

TCM does not adhere to the scientific method, and acupuncture is residue from that pre-modern practice.

 

[Doboi88]

My surgery was at Sutter Roseville but I’m using VA for physical therapy. I haven’t encountered any PTs with VA that seemed burnt out and my appointments never feel rushed. Guess that’s one benefit of having government issued injuries.

Absolutely, I’m waiting for a good VA spot to open up. They never double book, any equipment you want they’ll have and can order it…I did 3 months at one and I’m a Vet too, patients connected with me a lot more than the other PTs there that aren’t Vets.

Those guys aren’t burnt out at all lol they get better benefits than AD military lol

 

[Trapper]

VA shipped a cryo cuff, pulleys, and resistance bands to my house. Sent an email confirming my surgery date and received everything in less than a week.
Much better than the care I received on AD!

 

[packy14]

I had a range day planned with my new xmacro today and almost skipped it due to a serious case of tennis elbow. I’m glad I didn’t because as much as I thought i understood how important grip is to accuracy, I didn’t truely until today. The tennis elbow is on my weak side so left hand. It’s incredibly painful to fully extend my arms and I can’t event really identify the way that affects my finger placement. I’ve been shooting for a few decades now and usually I’m pretty good, but my groups were so bad at 7yards that I thought the sights were off... It was embarrassing. After about 40 rounds I locked in and tried to ignore the pain and managed to tighten my groups up nearly 75%! It wasn’t sustainable to keep that up so I went through another box and called it quits. My point is, next time you have a physical issue, try hitting the range if at all possible. Shooting through pain is a rare stressful training session that no timer can replicate. I’d have included target pictures but unless you have a projector, you won’t see my groups lol. Also, if you haven’t tried one of these olights they are awesome. I generally steer clear of them but this one’s a winner

Use grip strength tool and also extension tool with rubber bands or similar (flexion/extension strengthening is key). Turmeric meriva formulation for joint inflammation (helps all over body). Acupuncture is great for a flare. I happen to be a real MD.. not a nurse or murse or PT or Chiropractor, for what it’s worth. Also a former high level athlete with a lot of wear and tear. Most people are not lifting weights or being active enough daily and that leads to injuries.

 

[Jdsonit510]

Get one asap

 

[RustVendor]

Na I used to do strongman and train grip and I still get elbow tendonitis. There's no magic bullet but the biggest thing is keep working out, if you just stop using your elbow because it hurts you will get weak and it will never get better. It's likely this will be a reoccurring thing forever so learn to work around it

Apparently you get it from not having strong enough forearms which I didn’t know. training forearms is important. I guess I’ll need to start

 

[DrewN]

As I get older my cooking gigs get less frequent, and I'll often get tendon issues after a few days in a kitchen. Stirring is an oddball stressor I guess. I usually use athletic tape to add support just under the elbow. Will get you thru a shift until you acclimatize.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Look i'll be the first to point and laugh at people trying to use crystals to arrange their chakras and meridians to treat serious medical conditions.

But there is legit use for some eastern medicine practices, even if the majority of therapeutic results comes from the placebo effect.

Someone very close to me had stage 4 cancer and the chemo/radiation therapy was rough on her. There was a concoction from a Asian herbal pharmacy that one of her clients referred her too. It was a mixture of herbs, fungi and wormwood(i think) that you would boil then drink. It helped dramatically raise her whiteblood count so she could spend time with her kids without worrying to much about getting sick. And she got a few more years to spend with her family before she passed.

Did the special herbs actually raise her white-blood cell count? Or was it that she believed that they would? Either way it worked.So IMO i do believe that there is SOME use for alternative medicine as a supplement to regular treatment.

These are testable claims. If it works and it can pass blinded testing, it becomes medicine. There's no such thing as "Eastern" or "Western" medicine. It either works with reproducible results (with grounds for falsification) or it does not. That's the whole point of the scientific method.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I am reading your article. It’s actually quite flawed and clearly an emotionally driven article.

Just because someone is an MD doesn’t make them an expert. C’s get degrees.

I have personally corrected severe mistakes made by MD’s and saved lives as a Chiropractor. I work WITH medicine, WITH PT, WITH acupuncture, WITH naturopathy.

MD’s send patients to me because I get results. I send patients to MD when they need surgery or injections, MRI’s, labs to investigate more nefarious concerns. I recommend PT to my patients daily. I send patients to Acupuncture when their issue is rooted in emotion or impulse issues I can’t resolve.

Acupuncture is not evidence-based medicine. Neither is naturopathy, nor is chiropractic. That doesn't mean that everything you do is wrong or doesn't bring some perceived short-term relief. The placebo effect is a thing. Care given by a provider (even a soothsayer) for some people is enough. Some people just want to talk to someone who knows something, anything, even if the person claiming to know something knows nothing (like a "psychic"). I'm not saying this is you, but bedside manner as you know goes a LONG way.

Sometimes simply being seen with good bedside manner is going to make the patient feel better, which is a natural advantage of the alt-med crowd. Some chiropractors are better than others too, depending on how much pseudoscience they mix in. If you're basically doing what is tantamount to PT and diagnosing via XRays and pragmatic medicine, then you're closer to the evidence-based side. It really depends on the chiro, straight (the most pseudoscience) versus the "mixers", which it sounds adjacent to your practice. I would never go to a chiro, but a lot of people claim benefit if the practices themselves are not really approved, and can and do cause harm (in violation of the Hippocratic Oath). First, Do No Harm.

I'm also assuming that you're too smart to believe that subluxations are the root of all disease. To me, that's something a "Straight" chiro would say, and would be an obvious red flag.

Also, I would never claim that an MD makes someone an expert. This is fallacious logic and a strawman. An MD simply proves some level of *accredited* training. I've met doctors personally who are dumb, or who make silly conclusions, or who lack patience and diligence, and a bunch of other deficiencies. I'm sure I could meet the best chiro in the world and despite the fact that the whole practice is rooted in nonsense (D.D. Palmer), some might be super diligent, pragmatic, and know when to refer patients beyond their ken.

I've also met vets who were retarded. One vet wanted to use acupuncture on my cat. I almost laughed her out of the office. I did debate her a little bit and voice my extreme and blatant skepticism. That's almost as dumb as trying to force a vegan diet on an obligate carnivore.

I think if you dropped Acupuncture and Naturopathy (and Homeopathy if you currently employ it), you'd be that much better, at least for smart skeptics who know better. The most gullible patients would be retained. Homeopathy is OBVIOUSLY false for anyone who's read about it.

People who have emotional issues should see a therapist, but a GOOD therapist. Lots of bad therapists out there, something we probably agree on. I would never go to a female or feminist therapist in a million years. Really, a good day at the range is all the therapy most of us need.

 

[packy14]

Acupuncture is not evidence-based medicine. Neither is naturopathy, nor is chiropractic. That doesn't mean that everything you do is wrong or doesn't bring some perceived short-term relief. The placebo effect is a thing. Care given by a provider (even a soothsayer) for some people is enough. Some people just want to talk to someone who knows something, anything, even if the person claiming to know something knows nothing (like a "psychic"). I'm not saying this is you, but bedside manner as you know goes a LONG way.

Sometimes simply being seen with good bedside manner is going to make the patient feel better, which is a natural advantage of the alt-med crowd. Some chiropractors are better than others too, depending on how much pseudoscience they mix in. If you're basically doing what is tantamount to PT and diagnosing via XRays and pragmatic medicine, then you're closer to the evidence-based side. It really depends on the chiro, straight (the most pseudoscience) versus the "mixers", which it sounds adjacent to your practice. I would never go to a chiro, but a lot of people claim benefit if the practices themselves are not really approved, and can and do cause harm (in violation of the Hippocratic Oath). First, Do No Harm.

I'm also assuming that you're too smart to believe that subluxations are the root of all disease. To me, that's something a "Straight" chiro would say, and would be an obvious red flag.

Also, I would never claim that an MD makes someone an expert. This is fallacious logic and a strawman. An MD simply proves some level of *accredited* training. I've met doctors personally who are dumb, or who make silly conclusions, or who lack patience and diligence, and a bunch of other deficiencies. I'm sure I could meet the best chiro in the world and despite the fact that the whole practice is rooted in nonsense (D.D. Palmer), some might be super diligent, pragmatic, and know when to refer patients beyond their ken.

I've also met vets who were retarded. One vet wanted to use acupuncture on my cat. I almost laughed her out of the office. I did debate her a little bit and voice my extreme and blatant skepticism. That's almost as dumb as trying to force a vegan diet on an obligate carnivore.

I think if you dropped Acupuncture and Naturopathy (and Homeopathy if you currently employ it), you'd be that much better, at least for smart skeptics who know better. The most gullible patients would be retained. Homeopathy is OBVIOUSLY false for anyone who's read about it.

People who have emotional issues should see a therapist, but a GOOD therapist. Lots of bad therapists out there, something we probably agree on. I would never go to a female or feminist therapist in a million years. Really, a good day at the range is all the therapy most of us need.

Turmeric has data… even anti cancer.

About Herbs, Botanicals & Other Products | Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center

Find evidence-based information from our Integrative Medicine experts about herbs, vitamins, and other dietary supplements.

www.mskcc.org

You can measure whole body inflammation easily (esr and crp) and see if comes down with things like turmeric meriva (or another high bioavailable turmeric formulation like bioperine or Longvida) and boswelia. You were saying?



Oh and here is a meta analysis on acupuncture…

Acupuncture: Effectiveness and Safety

Information about acupuncture, including its safety and effectiveness in treating pain and other conditions.

www.nccih.nih.gov