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Feedback Shotguns???

r8rs4lf said:
The GG&G aluminum mag tube cover and clamp, WPS 2 point sling, velcro/ammo card and a light is all that I have planned right now. I will be hitting the range today to see if I want to add an optic.

I got the 1301 Mod2

It does not shoot minis from what I understand although I have not tried. My Mossberg 590 is filled with minis however. 🫡
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Only mods I've done to my 590S is the safety switch and enlarged bead sight, and Magpul stock and forend. I bought the most minimal 590S 18 inch shockwave to minimize the sin tax.
 
BobGBA said:
Common internet fix rumor that didn't work in my personal experience.
My best guess on the fix is that the chamber needs to be reamed by someone other than Remarms.

I had a brand new Remarms Fieldmaster that required mortaring 2 out of the 4 brands of ammo that I tried in it,
I tried the steel wool fix, it didn't help.
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Reaming is not the answer.
Honing is the answer as honing makes a smoother finish than a reamer.
I do this type of work all the time.

The problem with 870's having stuck cases is partly to do with inexpensive steel case head ammo as well because the problem seems to go away when you use good quality shells with brass bases.
 
I just ran my 870 a bunch and eventually it stopped jamming. It was all good ammo no steel case that was getting stuck. I'm not convinced it was the chamber in the first place it seemed to be the action bars or the tracks they run in. Who knows, I still have it, I never use it.
 
AR15barrels said:
...Honing is the answer as honing makes a smoother finish than a reamer....

The problem with 870's having stuck cases is partly to do with inexpensive steel case head ammo as well because the problem seems to go away when you use good quality shells with brass bases.
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Thanks for the correction.

The 870 should be able to shoot anything.
My Benelli Nova had no problem with the shells choked my 870.
 
I have a Benelli m4 and I love it. Never had a problem, never felt the need to upgrade it except for a +2 magazine tube extension. You can’t go wrong with it.

That being said, I was looking at the 1301 but I found a deal on the m4 I couldn’t pass up. This was before the a300 was even available. I think you will be happy with any of these three.
 
Currently, I have a Mavrick 88 at my office and SPX 930 at home with a shell card or a shell holder for extra ammo. Got a 1301 coming to replace the SPX 930.
 
As people have already mentioned, A300. The 940 Tactical is also worth a look.
 
I have extensively trained and practiced with shotguns for nearly 20 years for home defense. Almost all of them suck when it comes to ammo capacity. There are a few that have two tubes to get you up to 12 or 14 rounds but I have not hands on experience with these. In a perfect world, you would also have a pistol on you (there are ways to easily do this should you be woken up in the dead of night - look up Louis Awerbuck or Clint Smith discussions on the topic). That way you have a backup up firearm should you need it.
 
The only true advantage semi autos have over pumps is the ability to operate them one handed. There is a good chance in home defense you may need one hand to guide/push/move your loved ones out of harms way. With some training you can shoot a pump fast and I have personally seen some shoot it pumps faster than a semi auto.
 
Capacity wise; kel tec ksg. But it’s a pump action. Two magazine tubes. Each tube can hold 6 shells of 3 inch, 7 shells of 2-3/4 inch, or technically 11 shells of shorty shells such as Aguila or federal.

The weak spot in the components, as shown in by TFB, is the 2.5 mm Allen head hex screw that holds the magazine tube selector, from the factory they don’t have threadlocker on it. It’s just grease or oil on there. That’s how it failed the 500 round burn down test. It walked out on them, detent pin and spring popped out, the selector tube was not able to switch or hold its position for the selected tube since there was no longer tension, but also it caused feeding issues.

Luckily my KSG didn’t have that screw walking issue but I didn’t try to shoot it 300-500 rounds in one session; at most 50 rounds per session. I have already had a total at least 500 rounds by the time they came out with that video years later.

However, after watching the video, I put a small dab of blue loctite on it after degreasing; just as a preventative measure and doing my own quality control checks.

The lower pic rail is a polymer rail, since I added a vertical foregrip, I reinforced it by buying an aluminum rail by hi-tech cc, blue loctite the 8 set screws for the 4 aluminum dimpled lugs they included to hold the aluminum rail in place. I think this aluminum rail is essential mod since the KSG does not like to be short stroked or babied; need to rack with authority, like you own it, to prevent feeding issues. I also added a pistol light in front of the vertical grip as a secondary preventative just in case hand slips if wet; but also easy access for illumination.



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kdub1290 said:
Show me a home defensive use of a properly loaded 12 gauge where anyone has needed more than 5 rounds.
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Zombies, there are always more than 5 Zombies... ;)

Personally, I am more comfortable with a pump action for simplicity and reliability. First time I ever used one, a million years ago, I had the hang of it after two rounds. I am very fond of the Remington 870 with a steel barrel.
 
Capacity? Smith* & Wesson 12 ga. bullpup has two tubes that will cycle mini-shells without need of an adapter. 2 3/4 rounds are seven per tube, 14+1 capacity. Minis? Over twenty total. Slap a red dot on it and you have a home defense weapon that will keep spitting until the bad guys split.

(*Disclaimer-Same last name, no connection.)
 
BillSmith said:
Capacity? Smith* & Wesson 12 ga. bullpup has two tubes that will cycle mini-shells without need of an adapter. 2 3/4 rounds are seven per tube, 14+1 capacity. Minis? Over twenty total. Slap a red dot on it and you have a home defense weapon that will keep spitting until the bad guys split.

(*Disclaimer-Same last name, no connection.)
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I had not heard of the SW you mentioned so I looked it up. That is really interesting to me, I also had no idea that a 14+1 capacity shotgun would be legal in California, I assume that's because there is no field swappable magazine?

What other comments do you have about this? What kind of a deal did you get and where did you get it?

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Gang, there are reasons why you do not see any reputable instructors (I.e., instructors that teach at the Thunderstick Summit - look it up if you don’t know) using these dual tube bullpup shotgun designs. The features that distinguish those guns offer solutions to problems that simply don’t exist in practice.

That said, if having a really short, heavy gun that recoils hard and carries a comical number of extra weight, I mean excess ammunition, is what you want, then have at it. Having cool looking guns is totally cool. I just think some people’s priorities are off when selecting a defensive shotgun. I say this as someone who once had a KSG for home defense - it was a sub-optimal selection and I would not advocate for its use in that context. Same with the S&W version.
 
Lots of good info above OP for sure. Here is my two cents from a slightly different angle.
  • I would go for a good semi-auto over a pump for home defense. In a high stress, middle of the night, dark, frightening, unknown number of intruders, the pump will require more thinking and more skill. The auto will go bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and be empty.
  • KEEP IT STOCK. It’s California weeks after you go bang bang bang bang bang, some DA or lawyer for some family member is going to take you to court and the last thing you want to have to explain, is why did you modify it to kill my client.
  • Dont get a shotgun for home defense. I know, I know point and shoot, but in California for a stock Semi-auto you get 4+1 or 5+1. After that you will struggle to reload. Nope you can’t take more shells off your stock carrier (see 2nd point), you are left with a big stick.
AR15, PCC 9mm, semi auto handgun ALL with 10 rounds plus another 10 rounds easily swapped would be/is my choice. If those are not for you, semi-auto tactical style shotgun (like all the good ones mentioned above) would be my 2nd choice.
 
HarleyLowRiderST said:
Lots of good info above OP for sure. Here is my two cents from a slightly different angle.
  • I would go for a good semi-auto over a pump for home defense. In a high stress, middle of the night, dark, frightening, unknown number of intruders, the pump will require more thinking and more skill. The auto will go bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and be empty.
  • KEEP IT STOCK. It’s California weeks after you go bang bang bang bang bang, some DA or lawyer for some family member is going to take you to court and the last thing you want to have to explain, is why did you modify it to kill my client.
  • Dont get a shotgun for home defense. I know, I know point and shoot, but in California for a stock Semi-auto you get 4+1 or 5+1. After that you will struggle to reload. Nope you can’t take more shells off your stock carrier (see 2nd point), you are left with a big stick.
AR15, PCC 9mm, semi auto handgun ALL with 10 rounds plus another 10 rounds easily swapped would be/is my choice. If those are not for you, semi-auto tactical style shotgun (like all the good ones mentioned above) would be my 2nd choice.
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Please don’t take the below as disrespect. I just have (1) a legitimate question and (2&3) to white knight for my beloved shorty.

First, I’m curious why modification helps a family member make a civil claim. If the use of the firearm was justified, I don’t see how typical shotgun modifications would hurt a defendant’s case. Do you have more context here?

Second, the idea that 5+1 in a shotgun is “low capacity” is the one of the most overblown shotgun myths. Each round of common 00 12 GA buckshot fires NINE 30 caliber projectiles. That means emptying a shotgun loaded to 5+1 is expending 54 projectiles. You’d need the six 10 round magazines for the other firearms mentioned in this post to match that number of projectiles. Serving sizes (I.e. how many presses of the trigger it requires to stop a bad guy’s behavior) are much higher for the other firearms mentioned than for a 12 GA shotgun.

Third - point and shoot is THE biggest shotgun myth. Shotguns should be aimed the same as any other firearm. I think it could be argued that aiming a shotgun is actually more important than for other guns because each press of the trigger expels so many projectiles. If they don’t go into the bad guy, they could go into a lot of unintended people. Shotguns do allow for some imprecision in aiming and can still land some pellets on the intended target, which is a benefit. However, we must me mindful that the rest of those pellets that don’t end up on our intended target do end up somewhere. It is a double edged sword.
 
I haven't fired one but I think the tavor shotgun might be a good contender for best personal defense shotgun. Semi auto and 3 rotating tubes. Something I'd look into, it has always interest me.
 
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