Staccato on the decline?

[RustVendor]

The carry 2011 market is very strange. If you’re going for pure reliability or function there’s not really a strong reason to go a SA manual safety platform like a 1911/2011 when you can get a glock and it will work and shoot pretty well.

Anyone interested in carrying a 2011 usually has some desire to be different, shootability, or familiarity of the same manual of arms they may compete with.

While the Kimber DS Warrior and other more value offerings are really good, I don’t know if I’d personally trust them with my life yet. But everyone has to make that choice themselves.

I agree on all those points, I personally think a 1911/2011 platform has enough reliability snafus to make them less ideal carry guns in general. that said, many of those characteristics are alleviated with the HD series with more reliable glock magazines and external extractor. I think an HD in the same price range as the Warrior would be an extremely popular carry guns because it's in reach of almost everyone vs. being the price of 6 polymer carry guns. From what I've read the Warriors seem perfectly serviceable, I think it's more of a branding choice than anything not to sell a lower priced HD with slightly looser tolerances and a worse finish or whatever it would take. But at this point if they did though then everyone would just say "see Staccato IS in trouble they are selling low priced crap now"

 

[Hindsight]

I agree on all those points, I personally think a 1911/2011 platform has enough reliability snafus to make them less ideal carry guns in general. that said, many of those characteristics are alleviated with the HD series with more reliable glock magazines and external extractor. I think an HD in the same price range as the Warrior would be an extremely popular carry guns because it's in reach of almost everyone vs. being the price of 6 polymer carry guns. From what I've read the Warriors seem perfectly serviceable, I think it's more of a branding choice than anything not to sell a lower priced HD with slightly looser tolerances and a worse finish or whatever it would take. But at this point if they did though then everyone would just say "see Staccato IS in trouble they are selling low priced crap now"

I had pitched the idea directly to Staccato of a “ C^2” (C squared) G43X sized dedicated carry gun with Meg gar mags that are comparable to the new 15 round OEM Glock mags. Maybe a comped option/variant like the HD C4X.

They were receptive to the idea and had gotten similar feedback from LEO customers who worked UC, plain clothes, detectives, etc.

If they release that at a decent price point I think that would sell pretty well.

I agree though, the C4X is one of my favorite carry 2011s I regularly carry. Right up there with my Atlas Ares.

 

[Insert_user_name_here]

I’m confused where some of this is coming from? I saw most of the coverage including this video, Ben’s, AJ’s, etc.

What are the declining quality reports based off of? Also, the reports were like 60 of 300 staff, not like 150. Am I missing something about the extra people?

People saw a pissed off post from a vendor that deleted a bunch of comments that refuted theirs. They eventually made a correction but they know people like op will just run with the original statement.

 

[Hindsight]

People saw a pissed off post from a vendor that deleted a bunch of comments that refuted theirs. They eventually made a correction but they know people like op will just run with the original statement.

I feel like SC only bothered with the correction to stem off a libel/defamation lawsuit as staccato probably could make a strong case their reputation took a hit from the false statements. Whether that could be directly tied to loss in profits or financial harm in such a short window though seems doubtful.

But SC’s reluctant spin/correction makes me think they didn’t really care to get the facts as right as they should have.

End result is people like that one user in this sub earlier this week who kept parroting the false statements made without bothering to check or listen to corrections.

 

[Insert_user_name_here]

I feel like SC only bothered with the correction to stem off a libel/defamation lawsuit as staccato probably could make a strong case their reputation took a hit from the false statements. Whether that could be directly tied to loss in profits or financial harm in such a short window though seems doubtful.

But SC’s reluctant spin/correction makes me think they didn’t really care to get the facts as right as they should have.

End result is people like that one user in this sub earlier this week who kept parroting the false statements made without bothering to check or listen to corrections.

100%.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

The 2011 market is maturing, more competitive. Staccatos are expensive for most people. They may not be selling as many as they used to. Being a PE, looks like they are trimming operations and liabilities to be more attractive for a sale before they start operating in the red and go bankrupt. Bottom line is all their recent moves point towards one thing, they are trying to maximize profit. Maybe because its becoming harder for them to turn a profit or as much profit as before. Hint, hint... competition.

 

[JackRydden224]

I had pitched the idea directly to Staccato of a “ C^2” (C squared) G43X sized dedicated carry gun with Meg gar mags that are comparable to the new 15 round OEM Glock mags. Maybe a comped option/variant like the HD C4X.

They were receptive to the idea and had gotten similar feedback from LEO customers who worked UC, plain clothes, detectives, etc.

If they release that at a decent price point I think that would sell pretty well.

I agree though, the C4X is one of my favorite carry 2011s I regularly carry. Right up there with my Atlas Ares.

If Staccato can make a true CCW 2011 with G43x mags and Sig can make theirs with Xmacro mags then we are truly heading to the correct direction. My C4X shoots awesome but it can definitely be a bit slimmer for carry. T

 

[Hindsight]

If Staccato can make a true CCW 2011 with G43x mags and Sig can make theirs with Xmacro mags then we are truly heading to the correct direction. My C4X shoots awesome but it can definitely be a bit slimmer for carry. T

They do seem aware it’s an unfulfilled niche and they have the capital and connections with mec gar to proto type and produce comparable slimline style mags with actual capacity that are still reliable and flush fit.

 

[Hindsight]

The 2011 market is maturing, more competitive. Staccatos are expensive for most people. They may not be selling as many as they used to. Being a PE, looks like they are trimming operations and liabilities to be more attractive for a sale before they start operating in the red and go bankrupt. Bottom line is all their recent moves point towards one thing, they are trying to maximize profit. Maybe because it’s becoming harder for them to turn a profit or as much profit as before. Hint, hint... competition.

Staccato hasn’t focused on or catered to normal civilians as its primary market for a while. I think while there is absolutely more competition and value amongst the price point and below that they sell at, their have their niche as the more reliable/tested “duty” use option. Whether that really means anything is up for debate, but they’re one of the only 2011s that really have decent market penetration and adoption across law enforcement and some mil customers.

That’s also where most of their revenue comes in from. So, while I agree the market is getting more competitive, I don’t know if they care too much when the same customers they actually care about aren’t looking at their competitors as much for their use cases.

 

[ar15robert]

Shot one of the ported barrel ones last month it was smooth and flat.But i also hit the same targets with my 350 dollar caink too.My friend really likes it though and spent some good money on extra mags and optic,He shoots it very good.

I like the 1911 platform and shot mine(colt commander) for 20 years before i bought another handgun which was single purpose.The next handgun i got was the canik about 3 years ago.But looking at the 2011s for a bit im just not feeling like paying the price they ask for them the prodigy was about cheapest but im not much into springfields since my last 1911 loaded was troubled that i gave it away.

A local shop got dropped from stacatto last week so hes blowing out what he has left and plans to carry the platypus versions.Looking at the tisas for myself know some who have their 1911s been good for them.

My guess they will focus on LE sales and contracts or ones who want to spend the money for one.

 

[Hindsight]

Shot one of the ported barrel ones last month it was smooth and flat.But i also hit the same targets with my 350 dollar caink too.My friend really likes it though and spent some good money on extra mags and optic,He shoots it very good.

I like the 1911 platform and shot mine(colt commander) for 20 years before i bought another handgun which was single purpose.The next handgun i got was the canik about 3 years ago.But looking at the 2011s for a bit im just not feeling like paying the price they ask for them the prodigy was about cheapest but im not much into springfields since my last 1911 loaded was troubled that i gave it away.

A local shop got dropped from stacatto last week so hes blowing out what he has left and plans to carry the platypus versions.Looking at the tisas for myself know some who have their 1911s been good for them.

My guess they will focus on LE sales and contracts or ones who want to spend the money for one.

Was this some aftermarket version? Staccato doesn't make a factory ported option.

Also, I don't think people will notice as much of a difference if you're just shooting at a static range or only firing 1-2 shots a second. You tend to notice how well the 2011 platform shoots at speed or at further distances between the trigger design, accuracy standards, they tend to have better balance or a better grip texture/system than some other handgun offerings, etc.

1-2 shots a second at 10-15 yards at a static range? Won't notice too much. A couple of bill drill as fast as you can, designated target drills, predictive or reactive doubles at 20-25 yards, or even just ripping sub .2 splits for 20-30 rounds? You'll probably notice it more.

 

[exnds]

XC design looks like crap compared to the original DVC OMNI which should have never been discontinued

I'm still kicking myself for not picking up a DVC Omni or at least a DVC-P back when I had the chance.

 

[ar15robert]

Was this some aftermarket version? Staccato doesn't make a factory ported option.

Also, I don't think people will notice as much of a difference if you're just shooting at a static range or only firing 1-2 shots a second. You tend to notice how well the 2011 platform shoots at speed or at further distances between the trigger design, accuracy standards, they tend to have better balance or a better grip texture/system than some other handgun offerings, etc.

1-2 shots a second at 10-15 yards at a static range? Won't notice too much. A couple of bill drill as fast as you can, designated target drills, predictive or reactive doubles at 20-25 yards, or even just ripping sub .2 splits for 20-30 rounds? You'll probably notice it more.

hd p4x its compensated i say ported for them as well.Hope that clears it up.He had a sig 320 and got rid of it bought the stacatto did alot of training and damn ill say guy got pretty good all around.

I had a dueling tree i took and he was hitting right on from 20 yards made it a good shoot out.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

Staccato hasn’t focused on or catered to normal civilians as its primary market for a while. I think while there is absolutely more competition and value amongst the price point and below that they sell at, their have their niche as the more reliable/tested “duty” use option. Whether that really means anything is up for debate, but they’re one of the only 2011s that really have decent market penetration and adoption across law enforcement and some mil customers.

That’s also where most of their revenue comes in from. So, while I agree the market is getting more competitive, I don’t know if they care too much when the same customers they actually care about aren’t looking at their competitors as much for their use cases.

Thats great for them if they can turn a profit selling mostly to police and military, as you say. Maybe the civilian market isnt their "niche". I guess we will find out in a few years if that business plan worked long term.

 

[KingRansom]

I've posted this before, but I 100% believe the 2011 craze will be like the AR-15 craze of 10 to 15 years ago. Pretty soon the novelty wears out and everybody's on to the next best and greatest thing. The market will be saturated with firearms that a lot of people no longer want and to get rid of them they'll be sold at less than you would get them for at today's price

 

[RustVendor]

I've posted this before, but I 100% believe the 2011 craze will be like the AR-15 craze of 10 to 15 years ago. Pretty soon the novelty wears out and everybody's on to the next best and greatest thing. The market will be saturated with firearms that a lot of people no longer want and to get rid of them they'll be sold at less than you would get them for at today's price

AR15s make up 25% of the yearly production of all firearms, we could only be so lucky if 2011s were as ubiquitous and inexpensive.

 

[Hindsight]

I’m here for it tbh. If people can find ways to make extremely high quality 2011s half a tier short of the full customs but for a lower cost and less time, I’d be down. Despite being an owner of said high end 2011s, competition breeds innovation and is good for the consumer.

Plus, more options here in CA hopefully via SSE, on-roster, or stuff like the EGI.

RCD is actually very very impressive for the money when you run it back-to-back against an Atlas or Infinity.

 

[Gawernator]

Rumor has it that the original owners filed for bankruptcy a while back. Bought out by private equity. Just pissed in the face of a ton of dealers, laid off almost half their workforce, and word has it quality is on the decline.

They have been run by a private equity genius that saved the company for a while before he left as CEO. I couldn't find any bankruptcy, can you cite a source proving your claim? Bankruptcies are public record. Couldn't find any proof of quality decline or half the employees laid off either. Tbh your post sounds made up for clicks.

 

[Gawernator]

From a quality standpoint all 4 of my Staccatos have been perfect. I had a P, 24C and now a P4 and C4X. Every gun ran flawlessly.

If they have as many LEA contracts as they want us to think they have then I don't think they are in financial trouble. Laying off your workforce and reducing your dealer network seem like typical PE moves based on my experience (I work for a PE owned company). I think this is more of a analytics move by the PE to trim the fat and make their operations more efficient.

Edit : This could also be the PE lining up for a sale. Again, it's a typical PE move to clean the books before a sale.

How many agencies?

 

[Gawernator]

I’m here for it tbh. If people can find ways to make extremely high quality 2011s half a tier short of the full customs but for a lower cost and less time, I’d be down. Despite being an owner of said high end 2011s, competition breeds innovation and is good for the consumer.

Plus, more options here in CA hopefully via SSE, on-roster, or stuff like the EGI.

RCD is actually very very impressive for the money when you run it back-to-back against an Atlas or Infinity.

Maybe this will be their challenge, if Kimber and Sig are undercutting them with very high quality 2011's backed by massive industry like Sig has, it could be hard to compete.