Staccato on the decline?

[Gawernator]

I had pitched the idea directly to Staccato of a “ C^2” (C squared) G43X sized dedicated carry gun with Meg gar mags that are comparable to the new 15 round OEM Glock mags. Maybe a comped option/variant like the HD C4X.

They were receptive to the idea and had gotten similar feedback from LEO customers who worked UC, plain clothes, detectives, etc.

If they release that at a decent price point I think that would sell pretty well.

I agree though, the C4X is one of my favorite carry 2011s I regularly carry. Right up there with my Atlas Ares.

As a detective, I cannot abandon my Walther PDP Compact!

 

[Gawernator]

Staccato hasn’t focused on or catered to normal civilians as its primary market for a while. I think while there is absolutely more competition and value amongst the price point and below that they sell at, their have their niche as the more reliable/tested “duty” use option. Whether that really means anything is up for debate, but they’re one of the only 2011s that really have decent market penetration and adoption across law enforcement and some mil customers.

That’s also where most of their revenue comes in from. So, while I agree the market is getting more competitive, I don’t know if they care too much when the same customers they actually care about aren’t looking at their competitors as much for their use cases.

Mmmmm do you have a source for this? Staccato isn't Heckler and Koch where the majority of their sales are to government contracts. Maybe they wish they were HK. I would wager almost all of Staccatos sales are to civilians. It's either regular people or police officers (who are civilians not military members haha) buying them to use. It seems like Staccato has a few small agency orders, otherwise it's all regular sales to end users. They are relying on heavy discounts to sell to law enforcement officers as individuals but so far it remains to be seen if that will sustain them.

 

[Hindsight]

Mmmmm do you have a source for this? Staccato isn't Heckler and Koch where the majority of their sales are to government contracts. Maybe they wish they were HK. I would wager almost all of Staccatos sales are to civilians. It's either regular people or police officers (who are civilians not military members haha) buying them to use. It seems like Staccato has a few small agency orders, otherwise it's all regular sales to end users. They are relying on heavy discounts to sell to law enforcement officers as individuals but so far it remains to be seen if that will sustain them.

AFAIK they don’t release or report their revenue broke down by sector, models, or stuff like that, so there’s nothing public to cross reference.

I had used the phrase “normal civilians” to try to distinguish between your average Joe ccwer or competition shooter versus the LEO purchasing it for approved duty use as a personal weapon or issued by the department.

My statement probably should have come with the caveat that it’s a combination of what I had been told by some of their larger dealers over the years, industry insiders in the 2011 space, and ex staccato employees - that for the past few years when you combine their various LEO and mil sales it represents more than half of their overall sales on an annual basis. All anecdotal, but it’s about right based on my understanding of how they’re positioned in the 2011 space, independent statements that matched broadly from all those sources I mentioned that weren’t related and made at different points in time, and having tracked staccato as a company for over 10 years (before staccato and even before their STI days back when they were Tripp).

That used to not be the case, but probably post covid as they leaned more heavily into the LEO connection it’s been skewing that way year over year.

 

[Gawernator]

AFAIK they don’t release or report their revenue broke down by sector, models, or stuff like that, so there’s nothing public to cross reference.

I had used the phrase “normal civilians” to try to distinguish between your average Joe ccwer or competition shooter versus the LEO purchasing it for approved duty use as a personal weapon or issued by the department.

My statement probably should have come with the caveat that it’s a combination of what I had been told by some of their larger dealers over the years, industry insiders in the 2011 space, and ex staccato employees - that for the past few years when you combine their various LEO and mil sales it represents more than half of their overall sales on an annual basis. All anecdotal, but it’s about right based on my understanding of how they’re positioned in the 2011 space, independent statements that matched broadly from all those sources I mentioned that weren’t related and made at different points in time, and having tracked staccato as a company for over 10 years (before staccato and even before their STI days back when they were Tripp).

That used to not be the case, but probably post covid as they leaned more heavily into the LEO connection it’s been skewing that way year over year.

When you get $800 off a P4 that price becomes a lot more tempting. How much margin is left in the gun after the big discount?

 

[JackRydden224]

How many agencies?

No clue but this is the key to their survival I think. If they hit whatever the magical number is and their profits are good then it's time to for the PE to flip them. If they are not getting the agency numbers then they are in real trouble because there are options that costs a third to half of what they charge and performs 90% as well for the range guys and gals.

 

[Gawernator]

No clue but this is the key to their survival I think. If they hit whatever the magical number is and their profits are good then it's time to for the PE to flip them. If they are not getting the agency numbers then they are in real trouble because there are options that costs a third to half of what they charge and performs 90% as well for the range guys and gals.

Better than 90% as well lol. I can’t find any agency contracts they have other than some small sales to SWAT departments

 

[Tere_Hanges]

It's no big secret that Staccato is in the harvesting and exit stage of the PE cycle. Just ask Google:

"When a private equity-backed company gets ready for a sale, its behavior changes. In the firearms community and broader market, Staccato has shown classic late-stage PE indicators:

• Dealer Network Consolidation: Staccato has significantly tightened its "Authorized Dealer" network, weeding out smaller accounts to prioritize high-volume, highly profitable showcase dealers. PE firms do this to make the sales pipeline look incredibly clean and predictable to potential corporate buyers.
• Massive Product Standardization: They transitioned from semi-custom builds to highly standardized assembly-line production (like the Staccato P, C2, and C lines). This creates predictable profit margins that corporate accountants love to see during an acquisition.
• Fund Lifespan Pressure: Most standard private equity funds operate on a strict 10-year lifespan. Because Castle Crow entered the picture in 2016, the clock is ticking down to return cash to their primary investors (Limited Partners).

A company at this stage will likely be sold via a Strategic Sale to a massive outdoor/defense conglomerate (like Vista Outdoor, Smith & Wesson, or a similar holding entity) or handed over to an even larger private equity firm in a Secondary Buyout."

 

[JackRydden224]

Better than 90% as well lol. I can’t find any agency contracts they have other than some small sales to SWAT departments

The 2011 formula is out there now and for the majority of the folks the Turkish guns are probably good enough. I can't imagine dudes making $20/hr in Mississippi are buying Staccatos but a Tisas would be doable.

Stop looking for Staccato agency contracts and start looking for a legit mail order bride company for me

 

[RustVendor]

Atlas should buy Staccato, phase out most of their lineup except for 3-4 HDs and use the machinery to produce parts for Perfect Zero

 

[Hindsight]

Atlas should buy Staccato, phase out most of their lineup except for 3-4 HDs and use the machinery to produce parts for Perfect Zero

I think Atlas is kind of moving in the opposite direction to Staccato currently. Maybe if it was a company under the broader umbrella as I had heard rumors they were considering not doing brand dilution with lower cost Atlas offerings, but stuff under the perfect zero brand name. But, Atlas probably lacks sufficient capital anyways and certainly after all their recent investment into getting perfect zero off the ground.

 

[Gawernator]

The 2011 formula is out there now and for the majority of the folks the Turkish guns are probably good enough. I can't imagine dudes making $20/hr in Mississippi are buying Staccatos but a Tisas would be doable.

Stop looking for Staccato agency contracts and start looking for a legit mail order bride company for me

My wife has extremely hot 10/10 friends in Colombia lol so… lemme know

HK is like half the cost of Staccato and still too expensive for most departments and agencies. It’s a hard sell for them to buy $600-1000 (???) HK’s when they can get Glocks and sigs for like $200-300 each, so I can’t imagine how hard it would be to sell $2-3k 2011’s that also are more difficult to use and require more training.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Staccato working to heavily position themselves as duty 2011 brand seems problematic to me as if agencies are going drop Glocks for Staccato or LEO’s are going to out-of-pocket $3k+.

 

[RustVendor]

I think Atlas is kind of moving in the opposite direction to Staccato currently. Maybe if it was a company under the broader umbrella as I had heard rumors they were considering not doing brand dilution with lower cost Atlas offerings, but stuff under the perfect zero brand name. But, Atlas probably lacks sufficient capital anyways and certainly after all their recent investment into getting perfect zero off the ground.

I was mostly joking but it would allow atlas to sell a "budget" gun and actually keep parts in stock. it would just be funny if Staccato came full circle to being a competition gun company again

 

[donmatteo]

My wife has extremely hot 10/10 friends in Colombia lol so… lemme know

HK is like half the cost of Staccato and still too expensive for most departments and agencies. It’s a hard sell for them to buy $600-1000 (???) HK’s when they can get Glocks and sigs for like $200-300 each, so I can’t imagine how hard it would be to sell $2-3k 2011’s that also are more difficult to use and require more training.

Certain agencies reimburse weapons and not provide them. It's officer desecration for the most part based on a provided list to choose from.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

Obviously, whoever buys Staccato will have to be big enough to afford it, since the equity investor probably wants some return on the sale. And who knows what the strategy of the new owner will be. Maybe Colt/CZ, Beretta, S&W, Ruger or Glock will buy it. That would be hilarious if Glock bought Staccato and rebranded it. LOL. Anybody want a Glock 2011?

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

Meh, Staccato’s are cool, but at the end of the day they are overpriced (not overrated) production guns.

 

[RustVendor]

The whole industry is in a downturn, nobody is buying staccato at a premium

 

[Hindsight]

The only niche I could see Staccato really carve out long term is specialized units adopting it or marketing it as for them - like the C4X was supposedly designed in partnership with/for SIS, lots of SWAT guys run a flavor of Staccato, and CAG is currently doing T&E the full size "HD P5X" or equivalent. No chance they really go for it in my opinion, but they are also one of the groups that has been known to prioritize sidearm usage and training over mostly rifles, so I may eat my words.

 

[adrkwan]

Better than 90% as well lol. I can’t find any agency contracts they have other than some small sales to SWAT departments

I only found one and that was relatively recent. https://www.highergov.com/contract-...-staccato-2011-llc-89303026nau000027-s-fd5d9/

 

[Gawernator]

I only found one and that was relatively recent. https://www.highergov.com/contract-...-staccato-2011-llc-89303026nau000027-s-fd5d9/

DoE balling out wow lol