What will Glock do in California?

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

You probably should apply for a job with them. You will perfectly fit their corporate culture.

I'm happy where I am, but I did provide them with what I feel is helpful ideas, unlike what you provided. It was an honor to get a invite from them to share my ideas with them.

 

[SomeOne]

I'm happy where I am, but I did provide them with what I feel is helpful ideas, unlike what you provided. It was an honor to get a invite from them to share my ideas with them.

I am happy for you. Glad you feel proud.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

The lawsuits I'm talking about haven't been decided yet, I don't even think what you are saying is accurate anyway because they have lost a few individual jury trials that have nothing to do with whatever you are talking about

$11 Million Jury Award Against Gunmaker Sig Sauer for Negligence

A Philadelphia jury has just awarded $11M in damages to U.S. Army veteran George Abrahams, who was shot by his own Sig Sauer P320 pistol

www.smbb.com

So what is the correct solution? I might be able to get you job at Sig

The correct solution is to say "even if the only reason for hundreds of reports of discharges are ultimately the fault of the user sitting down too quickly and making the gun go off without intentionally pulling the trigger, that's still a problem so we fixed our action to give people peace of mind and not think we are super shady". It's insane that you are even arguing about it and being dismissive of peoples concerns and you aren't even getting paid (directly). They are guilty until they come up with a real solution, it's not about cancel culture or some other scapegoat. Like tell me why you have told us more information than they have about their own investigations? you don't even work there. that's super sketchy. It's literally a life or death situation, most people don't think it's going to happen to 100% pf p320s, they just think there's a one in a million chance and it's not worth taking. and that Sig lost all credibility by not taking peoples concerns seriously.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

The lawsuits I'm talking about haven't been decided yet, I don't even think what you are saying is accurate anyway because they have lost a few individual jury trials that have nothing to do with whatever you are talking about

$11 Million Jury Award Against Gunmaker Sig Sauer for Negligence

A Philadelphia jury has just awarded $11M in damages to U.S. Army veteran George Abrahams, who was shot by his own Sig Sauer P320 pistol

www.smbb.com

The correct solution is to say "even if the only reason for hundreds of reports of discharges are ultimately the fault of the user sitting down too quickly and making the gun go off without intentionally pulling the trigger, that's still a problem so we fixed our action to give people peace of mind and not think we are super shady". It's insane that you are even arguing about it and being dismissive of peoples concerns and you aren't even getting paid (directly). They are guilty until they come up with a real solution, it's not about cancel culture or some other scapegoat. Like tell me why you have told us more information than they have about their own investigations? you don't even work there. that's super sketchy. It's literally a life or death situation, most people don't think it's going to happen to 100% pf p320s, they just think there's a one in a million chance and it's not worth taking. and that Sig lost all credibility by not taking peoples concerns seriously.

How can you claim that without a single fact that is because you really only want outrage? Let’s be honest — that’s the only reason you’re saying it. You’ve already made up your mind, regardless of what the evidence shows. That’s how outrage culture works. And that’s exactly why there’s no “right answer” for SIG — no matter what they do, 50% of people will find something to be outraged about. It’s a lose-lose situation.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

The lawsuits I'm talking about haven't been decided yet, I don't even think what you are saying is accurate anyway because they have lost a few individual jury trials that have nothing to do with whatever you are talking about

$11 Million Jury Award Against Gunmaker Sig Sauer for Negligence

A Philadelphia jury has just awarded $11M in damages to U.S. Army veteran George Abrahams, who was shot by his own Sig Sauer P320 pistol

www.smbb.com

Neg... You should read the court filings not headlines.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

How can you claim that without a single fact that is because you really only want outrage? Let’s be honest — that’s the only reason you’re saying it. You’ve already made up your mind, regardless of what the evidence shows. That’s how outrage culture works. And that’s exactly why there’s no “right answer” for SIG — no matter what they do, 50% of people will find something to be outraged about. It’s a lose-lose situation.

Yeah that's a ridiculous accusation, you are completely off base and I've lost all respect for you man. I literally never talk about the p320 and I'm not ouraged in the least. My opinion is that there's no other pistols with basically any reports of discharges and the companies response is incredibly weak to the point where I chose not to get an x5 legion or a p365 and instead have m&ps. There's several very credible accounts that I have heard in real life including a discharge that occured during a match in California. And I'm supposed to what, just take some jerks word for it online? Gfy

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

Yeah that's a ridiculous accusation, you are completely off base and I've lost all respect for you man. I literally never talk about the p320 and I'm not ouraged in the least. My opinion is that there's no other pistols with basically any reports of discharges and the companies response is incredibly weak to the point where I chose not to get an x5 legion or a p365 and instead have m&ps. There's several very credible accounts that I have heard in real life including a discharge that occured during a match in California. And I'm supposed to what, just take some jerks word for it online? Gfy

That is exactly what you are doing.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

How would you handle it? I see this a lot but yet I hear something stupid like they should own up to when these people making the comments have never seen, personally experienced a ND or know someone who has. It seems like some people enjoy sharing headlines because they need to have an opinion.

I’ve scoured YouTube and forums of these claims. I’ve yet to find any actual proof of a P320 AD under normal circumstances without pulling the trigger.

If anyone has actual evidence of this happening - without some sort of hack or FCU/trigger modification - please do share.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

I’ve scoured YouTube and forums of these claims. I’ve yet to find any actual proof of a P320 AD under normal circumstances without pulling the trigger.

If anyone has actual evidence of this happening - without some sort of hack or FCU modification - please do share.

Lot of people forgot the late 80s and early 90 when many police dept claimed Glocks did the same things.

Washington Post (Apr 8, 1989): “New D.C. Police Pistol Gets Poor Safety Marks.” Report cites FBI test scores and Metro-Dade concerns calling the Glock highly unsafe.

Washington Post (Nov 18, 1998): “Armed and Unready.” Waves of lawsuits and AD claims

The shift from “accidental” → “negligent” reflects a cultural/ training change that started in the military mid 2000s.

 

[TierHog]

Do you have any insight into the models we will be getting? I saw you said we are getting the 43x but I’m curious what else to look forward to.

Hi, very new here and this is my first time posting/question, so I appreciate your help. I apologize for this long post...
I'm also very new to Glocks. I guess I hit the lotto, because a few months back I bought a Glock 19, and 10 days later I bought the Glock 26. I love them both. A while back I shot a clock 30, I actually shot it better than my 19/26.
And being the first time I shot a 45 caliber, I was giddy like a kid! Now, all this stuff hit the fan here, and I'm trying not to panic about getting a 45 caliber Glock. I mostly CCW with my firearms, so the compact version is what I had tried.
Are any of the 45 caliber Glocks (I'm California, so gen 3 here) going to return does anyone know? Thank you in advance for your replies!

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Lot of people forgot the late 80s and early 90 when many police dept claimed Glocks did the same things.

Washington Post (Apr 8, 1989): “New D.C. Police Pistol Gets Poor Safety Marks.” Report cites FBI test scores and Metro-Dade concerns calling the Glock highly unsafe.

Washington Post (Nov 18, 1998): “Armed and Unready.” Waves of lawsuits and AD claims

The shift from “accidental” → “negligent” reflects a cultural/ training change that started in the military mid 2000s.

Personally, I just can’t accept claims no matter how respected or experienced the person making them. I’ve yet to meet anyone who has actually seen it happen nor any P320 owner it has happened to. It’s always claiming “a friend (claimed)” or x person/personality had it happen to them or saw it happen. I need to see the proof. If it’s as widespread as everyone claims I expect we’d have seen definitive proof by now.

However, I do think Sig should’ve rolled out a (OEM) trigger safety for P320 (and 365), even optional. It might be too late - to change public perception - but they should still do it in my opinion.

If the Glock V ends up having similar modularity they’re in a great place to regain marketshare they’ve lost to Sig while streamlining their manufacturing.

 

[treelogger]

The postings here of Scott from Route 66 are getting to be quite ridiculous. They should probable be read together with their recent post on Reddit about a visit to Sig USA headquarters and a meeting with Sig's CEO. That one is pure hagiography, risible.

Whoever is paying Scott is doing themselves a great disservice. I do wonder why a range in Southern California would be spending so much effort (and therefore money) on trying to shore up Sig's reputation. But that speculation is pointless, since I can't read people's minds.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

The postings here of Scott from Route 66 are getting to be quite ridiculous. They should probable be read together with their recent post on Reddit about a visit to Sig USA headquarters and a meeting with Sig's CEO. That one is pure hagiography, risible.

Whoever is paying Scott is doing themselves a great disservice. I do wonder why a range in Southern California would be spending so much effort (and therefore money) on trying to shore up Sig's reputation. But that speculation is pointless, since I can't read people's minds.

This might sound a bit unusual, but everyone deserves to have their say. I’m not trying to protect Sig’s reputation, just sharing what I’ve learned based on facts, not just hearsay like so many of you do.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

This might sound a bit unusual, but everyone deserves to have their say. I’m not trying to protect Sig’s reputation, just sharing what I’ve learned based on facts, not just hearsay like so many of you do.

The real issue here is:

Why do you think Sig would show you ANYTHING other than what they wanted you to see? Why would they allow you to come to ANY conclusion other than that which they wanted you to come to?

320s could now be legitimately safe NOW, while the ones out the door prior to the boilover could still be "problematic."

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

The real issue here is:

Why do you think Sig would show you ANYTHING other than what they wanted you to see? Why would they allow you to come to ANY conclusion other than that which they wanted you to come to?

320s could now be legitimately safe NOW, while the ones out the door prior to the boilover could still be "problematic."

I was allowed to wander the floor and pick any pistol off the line to test, but besides that, have you seen or had a uncommand discharge from a P320?

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

The real issue here is:

Why do you think Sig would show you ANYTHING other than what they wanted you to see? Why would they allow you to come to ANY conclusion other than that which they wanted you to come to?

I was allowed to wander the floor and pick any pistol off the line to test, but besides that, have you seen or had a uncommand discharge from a P320?

Once again... on what planet and universe did you think they were going to allow absolutely any situation in which you would "discover" any outcome which would be damaging to them?


Unfortunately my Department signed into an NDA when we received 320s for Department Testing for Department Approved On-Duty and Off-Duty use. It was NOT Approved.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

The postings here of Scott from Route 66 are getting to be quite ridiculous. They should probable be read together with their recent post on Reddit about a visit to Sig USA headquarters and a meeting with Sig's CEO. That one is pure hagiography, risible.

Whoever is paying Scott is doing themselves a great disservice. I do wonder why a range in Southern California would be spending so much effort (and therefore money) on trying to shore up Sig's reputation. But that speculation is pointless, since I can't read people's minds.

Honest question: what exactly are you expecting to hear from Sig (and also Scott) on an issue that has only been claims up to this point, with no actual proof?

By “actual proof” I mean video evidence of an AD from P320 that has not been hacked, modified, or otherwise compromised to induce or intentionally increase the probability of an AD.

Even the Air Force GSC - which was the most recent and high-profile claim - reinstated the ~8000 M18’s after another Air Men was charged with involuntary manslaughter in the incident.

If there were actual, meaningful proof of this issue’s P320’s would be out of service everywhere and likely a proposed ban in California of all states.

I couldn’t care less about Sig or defending them. I’m more so trying to differentiate between claims and definitive proof.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

That is exactly what you are doing.

That's not how it works, there are HUNDREDS of reports, several videos of LEO where you can clearly see the gun going off in a holster, Ive talked to several people in real life who witnessed it happening in holsters at USPSA events. So no, that's not what I'm doing at all. The burden of proof is on Sig to do more than gaslight people. I'm saying there's a possibility, not that it's 100%. You are saying it's not a possibility, therefore you are wrong because neither of us has definitive proof.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

Honest question: what exactly are you expecting to hear from Sig (and also Scott) on an issue that has only been claims up to this point, with no actual proof?

By “actual proof” I mean video evidence of an AD from P320 that has not been hacked, modified, or otherwise compromised to induce or intentionally increase the probability of an AD.

Even the Air Force GSC - which was the most recent and high-profile claim - reinstated the ~8000 M18’s after another Air Men was charged with involuntary manslaughter in the incident.

If there were actual, meaningful proof of this issue’s P320’s would be out of service everywhere and likely a proposed ban in California of all states.

I couldn’t care less about Sig or defending them. I’m more so trying to differentiate between claims and definitive proof.

The simple answer is that some amalgamation of the modular design of the 320 combined with the exponential possibilities of parts combination from OEM and aftermarket multiplied by the QC/Tolerance stacking of those parts have produced a situation where the gun simply lost most of its trust in the highstakes game of life, death and liability.

 

[treelogger]

Honest question: what exactly are you expecting to hear from Sig (and also Scott) on an issue ...

I don't expect anything from Sig. I don't even know for sure whether the P320 does or doesn't have a ND problem. And honestly, I don't need to know, since I don't own a polymer Sig. But the chintzy advertising campaign that Scott participates in is laughable.

And before anyone accuses me of being an Sig hater: My favorite pistols say "SIG" on them. I've posted pictures of them here and there.