Question Campfire Talk: When disagreements start about hunting….Rude or just being honest? Religion involved?

[Wolkenflieger]

Unless you get Gout. Wild game is high in Purines, as is Shellfish.

Purina Cat Chow...

 

[Smittty]

Hunted for two reasons, food and pest control. Quail and Chukar are quite tasty in my opinion. Cotton tail is I do not like venison, elk, feral hog, or squirrel.

Elk is ok, no interest in pork, don't like dove. Venison is ok I guess.

Pheasant and quail are good, never got a chukar and I think it's pure luck if you get one as they are impossible to shoot.

My favorite, sheep and wild trout.

Wild trout that I caught myself, pan fried in butter, on the riverbank, so good!

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

I wouldn’t quote the Bible to justify hunting, but instead take a logical approach. Why do they dislike it? Probably because they think it seems barbaric, think it’s mean to kill animals, or think it’s bad for the environment (especially if they think you can just go ill anything you want as often as you want).

Tell them that hunting is heavily regulated BY BIOLOGISTS employed by the state, and it’s an important part of conservation efforts. Especially with invasive species like hogs that destroy the habitat of other animals and breed like crazy; hunting them preserves habitat and allows other natural fauna to flourish.

Also, consider if it’s the lesser of two evils compared to what they do. If they buy meat at a grocery store, they are endorsing and supporting a system that keeps animals in HORRIFIC, cramped, painful, disease-ridden conditions until they’re slaughtered. The meat they buy also often comes from FAR away and often involves a huge amount of water of water, food, and fuel not to mention water pollution and pollution from transportation to get the meat to their grocery store. It also often supports really bad practices like monoculture crops for feed and pesticide/antibiotic use which threaten the food chain. While I’m a meat eater myself, I try to buy more local meat and meat raised in farms/ranches where I have a better idea of what the conditions are like.

Even if you buy “responsible” meat at the store, consider the difference between that and what you hunt. The animal you took lived a full, natural, free life in the wild (the way “God” intended if that’s your/their thing) before you humanely took the animal with a heart/lung shot. If I were the animal in question, I’d rather have lived a life in the wild than crammed into a 3”x5” box my whole life.

If the people are vegans you won’t get anywhere, but I’ve found the above arguments fruitful with reasonable people. My fiancé is a biologist who has devoted her life to wildlife conservation and agrees with everything I wrote.

Wow. Havnt been receiving notifications for this thread even though I have it on watch. Your response was pretty good too.

Yeh, they think it’s barbaric, and killing animals in their home. We should just leave them be; even if there is a limit.

These are the same people that think Yosemite anytime they hear backpacking or camping; and automatically assume backpacking is the same as camping. No, you stayed and lived at or near your car the whole time; and call that living in the mountains. No, just because you drove to Reno to go to the casino doesn’t mean you were going to the mountains.

I tried all that, about the biologists part, I even brought up Theodore Roosevelt and the north American model of wildlife conservation. I talked about how biologist go out in the field and do field surveys too.

If they were vegan, I would see a little more validity on their opinions, that’s why I asked if they were meat eaters; because if they were vegans then oh ok I guess I can understand. But then I guess there can technically also be vegans who are not against hunting due to seeing it as less cruel than the meat industry.

So what happens if I tried all that and they still are not understanding or still taking that stance?

Guess what, funny story, couple of them, their family member, fed them some deer meat and bones I gifted him from my A-zone harvest last year on public land, backcountry style, solo backpacking hunt, it was used to make broth (hmmmmm bone marrow), they didn’t complain, kept drinking and eating; and they still don’t know until this day. I guess it was hmmmm hmmm good after all.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

People don't understand what they arent exposed to, most of the population lives in urbanized areas with little access to hunting so they don't understand it.

Yeh, I noticed it’s generally not really considered normal. There is a bright side to the other side of the urban area folks, there is still a population that actually want to hunt; they want it or are interested in it. I’ve noticed this when attending some of the advanced hunting clinics.

 

[calgunner01]

Some years ago, I remember when speaking with some individuals, I introduced the topic about hunting, that mentioned they were against hunting when the topic was brought up; some disagreements came up about how they think killing is wrong, it’s killing animals, killing animals is wrong, oh it’s so brutal, or why kill animals when we can just go buy it at the grocery market.

I haven't gone to church in a long time. The others also have gone to church in the past.

I brought up and read some verses which does not prohibit hunting as long as it is for subsistence; some which depicts the man with the bow and arrow in a good light.

I also asked if they are currently vegan, vegetarian, or meat eaters. They were all meat eaters.

I asked why is it that they are not against angling? They themselves have gone fishing and crabbing, it’s not like their harvest was still alive; yet that is fine but hunting is not. I mentioned what about bow fishing for invasive species? They didn’t like that one either.

Seems like after that, they held a silent grudge against me ever since. No yelling was involved.

If it helps, they also don’t like guns either. Harvesting with a bow and arrow is still a no no; even if guns were not used for the harvest.

I asked someone else who is currently a church goer (not from the same church), if I am invalid; I was told no.

Was I rude or just being honest for bringing up these verses; maybe I should go back to church and ask.

Does the meat industry offer more peace and freedom; domesticated or raised for the purpose to be eaten by humans?

If it helps, I still see these people once in awhile…...

One explained a year later even though he knew I had a hunting license, saying he didn’t even know we needed deer tags or that there was a harvest limit for deer. I asked him how did you think it worked? “I thought you could just go out there and shoot as many as you want”. Until this day I think that’s just made up because it doesn’t sound real; or is it? Do people really think like that?

Lots of people in society have what I call “luxury beliefs”. Most farm animals live horrible confined lives being bred to yield maximum meat as fast as possible rather than be healthy as nature intended. I wouldn’t go hunting go myself unless it’s to kill an invasive species. But I wouldn’t judge those who do.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Yeh, I noticed it’s generally not really considered normal. There is a bright side to the other side of the urban area folks, there is still a population that actually want to hunt; they want it or are interested in it. I’ve noticed this when attending some of the advanced hunting clinics.

And honestly we don't want everyone to hunt because there's too many people as it is haha. I think it's not actually very common for people to be against it so much as just like "why would you want to do that that sounds weird".

 

[Yoteassasin]

*child-free

Ha

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

If they are church-goers, look them straight in the eye and say GOD favors ME over YOU.

God favors hunters than gatherers. Tell them the story of Abel and Cain.

 

[Jimi Jah]

I hunt with a Cannon. Digital camera cannon.

I do appreciate and respect those that do. It's needed or some animals would over reproduce.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I hunt with a Cannon. Digital camera cannon.

I do appreciate and respect those that do. It's needed or some animals would over reproduce.

Cannon/*Canon. That joke doesn't work too well with text.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Surprised I didn’t see the notifications to the responses of this thread. Just seen the responses now.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

If they are church-goers, look them straight in the eye and say GOD favors ME over YOU.

God favors hunters than gatherers. Tell them the story of Abel and Cain.

So, you know some of it why I brought it up was thinking maybe that would help them understand that it’s not prohibited.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Exactly! None of us would take marching orders from modern day goat herders so, why would we afford any credibility to goat herders from 5.000 years ago?

Dumb goat herders at that who didn't know where the sun went at night. I'd be happy to talk to smart goat herders.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Using the Bible isn't inherently bad, so it would depend on your heart posture of using it to counter their argument. To use it genuinely, no problem! But to bring it up as a personal attack to their convictions may be not the best idea. It sounds like you were okay

As I was typing my previous response, this verse came to mind:
“Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭13‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Except that the Bible is obviously false and God is the biggest mass murderer in all of fiction. It's not good to believe in false things, or to worship evil world-flooding space tyrants.

I mean, who created every disease and a world where the ideal food for many is meat from other living things? For believers, that would be god, although believers often hand-wave with bad arguments to make god less evil. To any consistently logical mind, the Bible and defense thereof is absurd and sounds intellectually dishonest.

Like any idea, the Bible is fair game. God is not real, nor could it be.

 

[Colt Collector]

Except that the Bible is obviously false and God is the biggest mass murderer in all of fiction. It's not good to believe in false things, or to worship evil world-flooding space tyrants.

I mean, who created every disease and a world where the ideal food for many is meat from other living things? For believers, that would be god, although believers often hand-wave with bad arguments to make god less evil. To any consistently logical mind, the Bible and defense thereof is absurd and sounds intellectually dishonest.

Like any idea, the Bible is fair game. God is not real, nor could it be.

You have faith that there is no God and the bible is obviously false. It takes a certain amount of faith to believe that since you can't prove there isn't a God just as I myself can't prove there is. I can give you reasons why I believe and you can consider them but it comes down to faith in one or another. There have always been believers in God and non believers. Most likely nothing said here will change anyone's mind about what they believe. Most people have blind faith in one or the other. They don't search out the other side (believers keep believing; non believers keep not believing). But once I came to a point in my life where I believed the bible is the word of God, then that became my source of truth about God.

 

[weaverftw]

You have faith that there is no God and the bible is obviously false. It takes a certain amount of faith to believe that since you can't prove there isn't a God just as I myself can't prove there is. I can give you reasons why I believe and you can consider them but it comes down to faith in one or another. There have always been believers in God and non believers. Most likely nothing said here will change anyone's mind about what they believe. Most people have blind faith in one or the other. They don't search out the other side (believers keep believing; non believers keep not believing). But once I came to a point in my life where I believed the bible is the word of God, then that became my source of truth about God.

Lack of belief in something due to lack of evidence is not the same thing as a positive belief in something despite lack of evidence. Your argument, while it’s a false equivalency, might hold weight if we’re talking about deism, but as soon as you start talking about specific books and sky daddies who make rules and influence the material world, that is clearly a leap of faith above and beyond just saying “I haven’t seen enough evidence so I don’t believe ‘x’.”

I’m not an anti-theist but cmon let’s be honest here.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

You have faith that there is no God and the bible is obviously false. It takes a certain amount of faith to believe that since you can't prove there isn't a God just as I myself can't prove there is. I can give you reasons why I believe and you can consider them but it comes down to faith in one or another. There have always been believers in God and non believers. Most likely nothing said here will change anyone's mind about what they believe. Most people have blind faith in one or the other. They don't search out the other side (believers keep believing; non believers keep not believing). But once I came to a point in my life where I believed the bible is the word of God, then that became my source of truth about God.

This is an old semantic trick, rephrasing my lack of belief as "faith there is no god". I know all of the semantic tricks. Whether there are a trillion believers or not doesn't change the facts. The concept of god is absurd. I also refuse to worship anything, much less an invisible world-drowning mass-murderer.

Thankfully, the god story is pure fiction. Nature is both beautiful and cruel but at least it's real.

Nature is far stranger than fiction. As Sagan said, "We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself". This is literally true, as we are all made of starstuff. Every molecule in our bodies and this world was forged in the hearts of stars and supernovae.

 

[jacrispies]

Except that the Bible is obviously false and God is the biggest mass murderer in all of fiction. It's not good to believe in false things, or to worship evil world-flooding space tyrants.

I mean, who created every disease and a world where the ideal food for many is meat from other living things? For believers, that would be god, although believers often hand-wave with bad arguments to make god less evil. To any consistently logical mind, the Bible and defense thereof is absurd and sounds intellectually dishonest.

Like any idea, the Bible is fair game. God is not real, nor could it be.

To make objective statements in a God-less universe is humorous. At least consistent athiests believe they can't make any absolute conclusions, there is no objective morality, and there is no such thing as right or wrong. Saying there is absolutely no God is wrong from your worldview. The correct answer based on your worldview would be "I don't know", yet the depths of your heart reveal a deeper motive that even absolute proof won't change. You need to be honest to yourself.

@weaverftw
Some Christians do blindly believe things with zero evidence. You may agree with me, as I believe those Christians need to dive deep for truth and find actual experiential and revelatory evidence to back up their beliefs. I personally speak not from a "I'm blindly guessing there is a God so I put my faith in that" but rather a "I've experienced something more real than reality itself and nothing other than God can explain what has happened many times over." I was changed overnight! I cannot possibly justify everything that God thinks or does. But to me, the evidence points to the truth of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. To be set there is zero evidence to this, you would be living in obvious deceit because you only need to do a little digging.

Some people choose to make it their life mission to take these beliefs down, probably because they were likely hurt in the past growing up in a religious environment. It's unfortunate. People misrepresent God all the time. We have failed religion. But it is relationship with God Himself that brings us life, not religion.

 

[weaverftw]

To make objective statements in a God-less universe is humorous. At least consistent athiests believe they can't make any absolute conclusions, there is no objective morality, and there is no such thing as right or wrong. Saying there is absolutely no God is wrong from your worldview. The correct answer based on your worldview would be "I don't know", yet the depths of your heart reveal a deeper motive that even absolute proof won't change. You need to be honest to yourself.

@weaverftw
Some Christians do blindly believe things with zero evidence. You may agree with me, as I believe those Christians need to dive deep for truth and find actual experiential and revelatory evidence to back up their beliefs. I personally speak not from a "I'm blindly guessing there is a God so I put my faith in that" but rather a "I've experienced something more real than reality itself and nothing other than God can explain what has happened many times over." I was changed overnight! I cannot possibly justify everything that God thinks or does. But to me, the evidence points to the truth of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. To be set there is zero evidence to this, you would be living in obvious deceit because you only need to do a little digging.

Some people choose to make it their life mission to take these beliefs down, probably because they were likely hurt in the past growing up in a religious environment. It's unfortunate. People misrepresent God all the time. We have failed religion. But it is relationship with God Himself that brings us life, not religion.

Please enlighten me on the digging I need to do - I’m not being sarcastic, I’m full of epistemic humility and actually open to see evidence, I just haven’t seen it.

I wouldn’t be in the “we don’t know” camp; more of the “we can’t know” camp - the question of whether some Supreme being created the universe/physical/material world is just not a question science is equipped to answer. That’s not the point of science.

I’m actually more of an analytic idealist from a philosophical point of view but I have problems imagining the likelihood of any particular Bronze Age goat herders’ deity being being “the one” who made all of this, and as Wolf mentioned if “he” was, I certainly would be on the other team’s side based on what the dude is purported to have done in his book…

 

[Jimi Jah]

My father, a California State appeals court Judge raised as a Southern Baptist once told me the Bible was the greatest book of fiction ever written.

I find the missing books of the Bible to be more fascinating than many of the included books. They were not included because Rome didn't believe they followed the narrative.

Recent archeologist discoveries have also raised doubts about some Biblical stories. Either they didn't happen or the stories were changed or the dates don't line up.

If you consider the New Testament wasn't written until 300 years after the death of Jesus one would figure they got some stuff wrong or filled in some of the blanks.