Feedback Request When do you commit to an item?

[ShootFirstFirster]

It's never that simple for me. Someone pressing an "I'll take it" button is just the start of the conversation, which is no different than signaling interest in a DM. I do not honor a 'lock' on an item I am selling simply because someone hit a button before any money has changed hands, and I reserve the right to refuse to sell to someone who triggers any number of warning flags.

If I have to meet someone in person, I really have to want to sell to them or, I can't find them repulsive, shady, dishonest, a lowballer, aggressive, etc. There is some vetting involved via written text and usually by voice. It's VERY obvious to me after 57 years of dealing with humans who the weirdos and flakes are, and honestly I get turned off by lazy or low-effort writing.

Anyone can DM me if they want a gun I'm selling and I will always choose the buyer on a variety of metrics.

The point being is that they should not be hitting that until everything has been worked out. That's why there's an acknowledgement. If you're sitting there, messing around saying you'll take it, you should automatically take the L.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

So you're completely ok with someone wasting your time after they said they'd take it? Arrange to meet and then nothing the day of?

Never once have I advocated for being okay wasting anyone's time.

If there's no plan to meet, then nothing has really happened. There's no real commitment. If you pick up an item in a store it's not really yours until you've paid for it, EVEN if you're standing in line at the checkout. People do change their minds at this late stage too.

So, until there's a plan to meet, it's all just noise. I do not advocate ghosting in person and not even in comms, but everyone has the right to change their mind. Just let the person know in advance and before any harm is done (wasted time, ad removed).

I have one buyer who has to save money to buy my RAMI, and although I'm kinda holding it for him, I would let him know if I really wanted to sell it sooner. Communication is key.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

The point being is that they should not be hitting that until everything has been worked out. That's why there's an acknowledgement. If you're sitting there, messing around saying you'll take it, you should automatically take the L.

Yeah no, that's backward. The button is moot once you're talking about when and where to meet. Until that commitment and agreement is made to actually meet, it's all just talk. This is a basic philosophy of sales on the Internet. I don't consider anything locked in until the person agrees to meet, and even then they may ghost. That is what I consider ghosting, leaving someone stranded and wasting their time while they wait at an FFL, which may not even be close to home.

If someone shows interest and then changes their mind, no big deal.

Both parties should always communicate any changes, regardless.

 

[ikeo1]

Never once have I advocated for being okay wasting anyone's time.

If there's no plan to meet, then nothing has really happened. There's no real commitment. If you pick up an item in a store it's not really yours until you've paid for it, EVEN if you're standing in line at the checkout. People do change their minds at this late stage too.

So, until there's a plan to meet, it's all just noise. I do not advocate ghosting in person and not even in comms, but everyone has the right to change their mind. Just let the person know in advance and before any harm is done (wasted time, ad removed).

I have one buyer who has to save money to buy my RAMI, and although I'm kinda holding it for him, I would let him know if I really wanted to sell it sooner. Communication is key.

So you're saying there shouldn't be a penalty for backing out at anytime right? I'm just trying to clarify to see if I understand correctly.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

Yeah no, that's backward. The button is moot once you're talking about when and where to meet. Until that commitment and agreement is made to actually meet, it's all just talk. This is a basic philosophy of sales on the Internet. I don't consider anything locked in until the person agrees to meet, and even then they may ghost. That is what I consider ghosting, leaving someone stranded and wasting their time while they wait at an FFL, which may not even be close to home.

If someone shows interest and then changes their mind, no big deal.

Both parties should always communicate any changes, regardless.

You are misinterpreting or misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm saying once you have worked out a deal. Time price location etc. The seller should ask the prospective buyer to hit the I'll take it button and hold them to account. If someone is just randomly hitting, I'll take it buttons and also acknowledging the second verification, then they should just be getting a bunch of neutral feedback.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

So you're saying there shouldn't be a penalty for backing out at anytime right? I'm just trying to clarify to see if I understand correctly.

No, there shouldn't be a penalty IF there's no plan to meet. People do change their minds, and sometimes we get excited and want more things than our wallets can handle at a given moment. I was on the verge of buying a P-01, I talked to the seller at length (great guy) and thought better of it during the discussion because I have a Staccato on order which is easy to forget because it's taking a while.

Ghosting IRL? That should carry a negative feedback. Neutral feedback to me is pointless, and I think the person leaving the bad feedback should give context (not just the feedback). Some people aren't reasonable and I may disagree with their feedback.

My old refrain is this, until there's an agreed-upon price, meeting place, and time...it's all just noise. A seller may be fielding several buyers, and many/most of the potential buyers will be flakes/lowballers/noobs who haven't built any rep here yet. You can read my DMs to see some of the oddness coming into my inbox.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Star misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm saying once you have worked out a deal. Time price location etc. The buyer should ask the prospective buyer to hit the I'll take it button and hold them to account. If someone is just randomly hitting, I'll take it buttons and also acknowledging the second verification, then they should just be getting a bunch of neutral feedback.

I know exactly what you mean. I think the whole button thing is pointless. As a seller I will want a couple backup buyers, and I may want to pick the better-qualified buyer for any number of reasons, including attitude, diligence, etc.

Granted, I will not change my mind about a buyer once I've agreed to meet them. I have some sales here and have had zero issues so far. If anything, the worst thing that happened was a seller not leaving feedback for me, though I left positive feedback for him.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

I know exactly what you mean. I think the whole button thing is pointless. As a seller I will want a couple backup buyers, and I may want to pick the better-qualified buyer for any number of reasons, including attitude, diligence, etc.

Obviously you do not because until you have picked your buyer You would not be asking anyone to hit the I'll take it button.

 

[ikeo1]

Obviously you do not because until you have picked your buyer You would not be asking anyone to hit the I'll take it button.

There's no button, but there should be something that acts the same way... The point of committing

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Obviously you do not because until you have picked your buyer You would not be asking anyone to hit the I'll take it button.

Why are we going in circles on this? There should not be an "I'll take it" button.

I think the "I'll take it" button is silly, pointless, and moot when people can simply talk to each other. Again, if I don't like a prospective buyer, the button won't matter. I may not find that out until I talk to the buyer.

What happens to my backup buyers if some scammy-feeling noob hits that button?

 

[ikeo1]

Why are we going in circles on this? There should not be an "I'll take it" button.

I think the "I'll take it" button is silly, pointless, and moot when people can simply talk to each other. Again, if I don't like a prospective buyer, the button won't matter. I may not find that out until I talk to the buyer.

What happens to my backup buyers if some scammy-feeling noob hits that button?

He's saying there's initial interest that's fine... but at some point, are you saying anyone can backout at any time up until say the last hour for any reason to many people .. I'm a buyer, i say i'll take it and come up with a location to 4 people, who ever says yes first, i'll cancel on all of them and no one should say anything about it?

 

[Wolkenflieger]

There's no button, but there should be something that acts the same way... The point of committing

You'll be surprised to find out that I don't believe in marriage, nor have I ever been married! LOL.

I believe in adults communicating and having personal agency. If I don't want to sell to someone, no button is going to make me sell to them.

Caveat, IF I've agreed to meet, that means I've talked to them by voice and I like them, and that there are no red flags. If I don't like the vibes, I won't arrange to meet. The button is moot, at least for me.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

He's saying there's initial interest that's fine... but at some point, are you saying anyone can backout at any time up until say the last hour for any reason to many people .. I'm a buyer, i say i'll take it and come up with a location to 4 people, who ever says yes first, i'll cancel on all of them and no one should say anything about it?

I don't like people canceling plans either, but things happen. Feelings change. Life happens. If I haven't left the house yet, it's all good. Even if something crazy comes up and I'm already at the FFL and the buyer makes a very good case why they couldn't show up, with apologies, then I'm likely to let it roll off my back.

An interested buyer isn't giving me a vow, and for any gun I sell I have several backup buyers. If something falls through then, "NEXT!".

Generally we can tell if someone is sincere in their voice and writing, but this is why it's good to vet people before agreeing to meet with them.

If anything, make it clear that the "I'll take it" button is a *starting* point, and more than one person should be able to smash it.

 

[ikeo1]

Caveat, IF I've agreed to meet, that means I've talked to them by voice and I like them. If I don't like the vibes, I won't arrange to meet. The button is moot, at least for me.

You have to take a step back out of your situation and look at it from a macro view. If you've talked to them, they say okay, then disappear the day of and don't answer your call or messages. You haven't left, but they're not responding.

This is a very real case btw and happens quite often...

 

[Wolkenflieger]

You have to take a step back out of your situation and look at it from a macro view. If you've talked to them, they say okay, then disappear the day of and don't answer your call or messages. You haven't left, but they're not responding.

This is a very real case btw and happens quite often...

If they don't respond on the day-of, then I don't consider that we have an agreement...which assumes we agree to check-in on the day of DROS. This is a good "proof-of-life" practice for buyers and sellers. This is yet another example of something not being sold until cash is exchanged and DROS is underway. After all, the buyer could show up wanting to pay half price in chickens and forget all of their paperwork after driving for 3 hours. Even then, the buyer may not pass a background check. All factors must be accounted-for, and it's not over until it's over.

Lots of factors can kill a deal, intentionally or not.

With every buyer/seller, we've always communicated on the day to avoid this very scenario, and as a bulwark against IRL ghosting. I've never had an issue being ghosted and I sure as heck wouldn't ghost anyone IRL.

Let's put it this way, NO button is going to make a flake or scammer not a flake or scammer. Honest people will be honest regardless, as it's always been.

All this button will do is add complication, infighting, more moderation headaches, and the flakes, lowballers, and scammers will still do their thing...unless it's treated as a *starting* point without any kind of hold or promise functionality.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

I don't like people canceling plans either, but things happen. Feelings change. Life happens. If I haven't left the house yet, it's all good. Even if something crazy comes up and I'm already at the FFL and the buyer makes a very good case why they couldn't show up, with apologies, then I'm likely to let it roll off my back.

An interested buyer isn't giving me a vow, and for any gun I sell I have several backup buyers. If something falls through then, "NEXT!".

Generally we can tell if someone is sincere in their voice and writing, but this is why it's good to vet people before agreeing to meet with them.

If anything, make it clear that the "I'll take it" button is a *starting* point, and more than one person should be able to smash it.

You're obviously not understanding anything that I'm saying. The I'll take a button should have an acknowledgement that you have already communicated and agreed to a time price location and specific item with the seller and that the seller has asked you to press that button to hold you to account.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

You're obviously not understanding anything that I'm saying. The I'll take a button should have an acknowledgement that you have already communicated and agreed to a time price location and specific item with the seller and that the seller has asked you to press that button to hold you to account.

You keep putting the cart before the horse. As you can see, I have some facility with language. I'm just saying that the button is not necessary, and it's more of a management headache for moderators.

Again, no button will make me sell to a flake or someone I don't want to sell to, and it doesn't fix the flakes or scammers. Also, I want to be able to have backup buyers.

IF the button is implemented, it should be a *starting point*, and more than one buyer should be able to hit it. Then, the seller vets the buyers and sells to the most-qualified and/or most respectful, best offer, best ability to meet at a favorable FFL, best availability, etc.

Think of this as a Yelp job. Submit a job and any contractor can bid on it. Pick your favorite and go. That's how I see the button working. Also, keep track of who hit "I'll buy it" and show everyone, like the "watchers" count.

E.g., some buyers are qualified but can't muster a weekday or weekend meetup which might work for the seller. Some may have a strong preference for an FFL which takes forever to do DROS anything whilst hating doing it. Some won't drive more than a couple miles out of their way, and so it goes.

Even with this idea with the button as starting point, it would be like how it's always been, especially on this site.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

You keep putting the cart before the horse. As you can see, I have some facility with language. I'm just saying that the button is not necessary, and it's more of a management headache for moderators.

Again, no button will make me sell to a flake or someone I don't want to sell to, and it doesn't fix the flakes or scammers. Also, I want to be able to have backup buyers.

IF the button is implemented, it should be a *starting point*, and more than one buyer should be able to hit it. Then, the seller vets the buyers and sells to the most-qualified and/or most respectful, best offer, best ability to meet at a favorable FFL, best availability, etc.

E.g., some buyers are qualified but can't muster a weekday or weekend meetup which might work for the seller. Some may have a strong preference for an FFL which takes forever to do DROS anything whilst hating doing it. Some won't drive more than a couple miles out of their way, and so it goes.

Even with this idea with the button as starting point, it would be like how it's always been, especially on this site.

If I get a message from someone with a bunch of neutral feedback from the system that I propose.... I wouldn't even waste my time replying.

Furthermore, if I discuss a sale with a buyer and ask them to hit the I'll take it Button and they never do then. Obviously I know they are aren't serious.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

If I get a message from someone with a bunch of neutral feedback from the system that I propose.... I wouldn't even waste my time replying.

Furthermore, if I discuss a sale with a buyer and ask them to hit the I'll take it Button and they never do then. Obviously I know they are aren't serious.

You keep operating within the premise that the system is in place. I'm saying that button isn't well thought-out and shouldn't be in place UNLESS it's a starting point only as I've outlined earlier.

Buyer hits button. Five other people hit the button (much like a DM). Vet the buyers for all metrics, from price to availability, FFL location, attitude, etc. Choose your buyer (as it is now). Meet. See if they show up. Make sure cash isn't counterfeit, etc. Hope your buyer has all of their paperwork, and they still have to pass BG check. Then, hope they leave feedback. Some don't, weirdly enough.

Tell me what point the button has in all this?

 

[ikeo1]

Even with this idea with the button as starting point, it would be like how it's always been, especially on this site.

Not quite, because we're growing there would be a penalty if you agreed and then didn't respond. This way if it's done to multiple people, people would know that it's a pattern of behavior. I actually don't want people to get used to agreeing and then ignoring after making an agreement. The only caveat, it would have to be in DM, then reported to back up the neutral feedback.

Multiple penalties would lead to restriction of classifieds access.

The way you're describing, it's a one off. What we're addressing is a pattern of consistently doing it, which is what's happening. We want people to "call it off"