Feedback Request When do you commit to an item?

[ikeo1]

Ok the nuance is there. This really is about the I’ll take it then no longer communicating. There’s a nuance about the reason. That’s up to the seller to decide whether or not to leave a neutral, not a negative. If you have too many that says lot but it’s not a negative. We try to give you indicators.

Like we said you can remove one just don’t make it a habit of over committing and wasting multiple people’s time.

We’re not trying to be nannys. Rules make for a better environment for everyone, a lot of things here are honor system, when people take advantage we make slight adjustments, so everyone has a reasonable expectation

 

[H. Bowman]

Dropping off communication is the problem. If a potential buyer says I'll take it then comes back in the morning and says ", sorry man I was being impulsive and I actually can't swing it this month", I have very little issue with that. But when you just disappear with no communication, you wind up like plenty pack 556 or whatever his name is, where people are wondering what the heck's going on and waiting for the buyer to come through after giving their word, and three days later you relist it and then they start whining because they disappeared and you had to move on with your life.

If an I'll Take It turns into a nevermind, I won't take it, in a reasonable amount of time (yes, that reasonable amount of time is subjective), then no big deal and folks can carry on. If the I'll Take It turns into a scumbag who doesn't have the decency to let the seller know they're backing out, a neutral is absolutely warranted. Scumbags suck and should be publicly shamed.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

The fact that you need ghosting explained says a lot about you. It's very clear in the OP from Ikeo. If you commit to buy it and then drop off the face of the earth, other sellers should know you're an .

Changing your mind isn't ghosting, as long as you let the seller know you've changed your mind. Plenty of dudes in here that seem to have no problem with being s or doormats, and I feel sorry for you.

The fact that you can be opposed to this voluntary system just tells me you have no problem committing to a purchase and then changing your mind without notifying the seller, and you just don't want to be called out for it.

Remember that with debate it's always good to settle on definitions to prevent talking past each other.

Define ghosting please, and stop with the personal attacks. Nobody here is defending actual ghosting, and I've never ghosted anyone here, nor is it something I do generally.

Lots of people show interest and kick tires. If you've sold anything as an adult you know this. Sometimes people have all kinds of things going on or can't quite get the cash together or in a timely manner.

Anyone messaging you about your listing is showing interest in your product for purchase.

The way I look at it, until there's a defined time and place to meet, there's nothing set in stone. If there's an agreed meeting time and place and someone fails to show, that's obviously ghosting.

One seller i wss talking with was unreliable with comms, we completed the transaction, and then he didn't leave feedback. That tracks though, because i would expect this behavior from flaky communicators. I always leave feedback because it builds a stronger, higher-trust community.

I don't let think mods should be policing comms before a solid plan to meet with date, time and location is set. That's where the rubber meets the road.

I know some of the members here and have met several of them at this point. Every transaction has been positive so far, even grumpy no-feedback guy.

If a power buyer/seller hits me up I'm going to have more confidence in a future transaction than rhe army of noobs coming at me sideways with low-effort comms and lowballl nonsense.

It's one thing to say one wants a gun, but arranging to meet and complete a PPT is where I take a transaction seriously, and this usually involves a phone conversation as well for vetting and additional Q&A.

Everything else before that arrangement is just noise, especially with all the zero-transaction, new members on the site.

 

[NaboombuLagoon]

Remember that with debate it's always good to settle on definitions to prevent talking past each other.

Define ghosting please, and stop with the personal attacks. Nobody here is defending actual ghosting, and I've never ghosted anyone here, nor is it something I do generally.

Lots of people show interest and kick tires. If you've sold anything as an adult you know this. Sometimes people have all kinds of things going on or can't quite get the cash together or in a timely manner.

Anyone messaging you about your listing is showing interest in your product for purchase.

The way I look at it, until there's a defined time and place to meet, there's nothing set in stone. If there's an agreed meeting time and place and someone fails to show, that's obviously ghosting.

One seller i wss talking with was unreliable with comms, we completed the transaction, and then he didn't leave feedback. That tracks though, because i would expect this behavior from flaky communicators. I always leave feedback because it builds a stronger, higher-trust community.

I don't let think mods should be policing comms before a solid plan to meet with date, time and location is set. That's where the rubber meets the road.

I know some of the members here and have met several of them at this point. Every transaction has been positive so far, even grumpy no-feedback guy.

If a power buyer/seller hits me up I'm going to have more confidence in a future transaction than rhe army of noobs coming at me sideways with low-effort comms and lowballl nonsense.

It's one thing to say one wants a gun, but arranging to meet and complete a PPT is where I take a transaction seriously, and this usually involves a phone conversation as well for vetting and additional Q&A.

Everything else before that arrangement is just noise, especially with all the zero-transaction, new members on the site.

You're just trying to justify a lesser level of ghosting. Making a commitment to buy and then disappearing is not as egregious as committing to a time and place to meet and not showing up, but it's still ghosting if you don't tell the seller you've changed your mind.

We all get to decide what level of ty behavior we're okay with and you've made it abundantly clear where you stand on the issue. That's fine. The thing I honestly can't wrap my head around is your apparent belief that nobody else is allowed to feel differently than you do and have the ability to call out ty behavior that they're not willing to let slide.

If you don't want to use the feature, don't. But trying to justify why nobody else should have that option is what speaks volumes here.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

I would like an "Ill take it button" that requires an acknowledgement that if you back out it will automatically trigger a neutral rating. On the seller end there should be a button to press +/- on the "Ill take it" If "+" nothing happens and regular feedback as usual if "-" automatic system generated neutral.

Additionally when you acknowledge there should be a field where you state which item in an ad you want.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

I would like an "Ill take it button" that requires an acknowledgement that if you back out it will automatically trigger a neutral rating. On the seller end there should be a button to press +/- on the "Ill take it" If "+" nothing happens and regular feedback as usual if "-" automatic system generated neutral.

Additionally when you acknowledge there should be a field where you state which item in an ad you want.

I do like @ShootFirstFirster 's Idea with a buy it now button. Infinite Armory has a system like that, that also has the Venmo and PP buttons.

 

[ikeo1]

Well there you go great idea!

I think the mods are gonna get more than they bargained for if they have to get involved with the "Yeah but" stories around neutrals. "Seller was unfair I did leave a message" "But i deleted the text". "How do I send you proof I was a good buyer", etc etc.

@ikeo1 This is you house so you get to to make the call, but in my humble opinion I don't expect the mods to get involved when I sell a $55 grip stock and the buyer backs out, nor do I personally need you guys to get involved if I wait an hour or two to sell a $3,500 Glock 19 gen 3. Stuff happens. Hell Facebook is one of the largest face-to-face buyer seller and not sure anyone even knows how to leave feedback there.


I do like @ShootFirstFirster 's Idea with a buy it now button. Infinite Armory has a system like that, that also has the Venmo and PP buttons.

Thanks for the thought, it's here for discussion for a reason. We're not involved in your tx at all. We're only talking about neutral feedback. We look if you committed or not, there's no debating. Right now, people are pulling us in for getting stiffed, and you know what it's kinda getting worse because we allow it.

 

[BigBlaze]

For me the commitment takes place once a location, day & time to meet have been agreed upon by both parties.

I think the feedback should be one way from the seller only. Due to the fact that a buyer will always come up with some BS excuse why they flaked.

 

[socalgunowner909]

This thread is funny.

 

[JRAUS]

Once you agree upon a time, a price/trade and a place to meet I’d say you’re committed. Until those three requirements have been fulfilled I’d say there isn’t a deal or obligation.

 

[JRAUS]

Agreed, keep feedback for completed transactions only, or if a buyer or seller ghosts an actual agreed-upon meeting time and place. Until that time and place is agreed-upon, there's no real commitment. People do change their minds for numerous reasons.

I had one seller refuse to leave feedback for a completed transaction and I have zero recourse.

I was considering a P-01 here but at the last minute I changed ny mind before we agreed on time and place, not because of the seller but because reason took hold. I was over-extending myself when I have a new gun purchase pending. Seller knew all of this and hadn't yet removed his ad.

No need to overthink it. It'll make moderation more complicated and won't solve much

Totally agree, people change their minds. A gun purchase isn’t like putting a Snickers back on way out of the grocery store. In my opinion (as a seller) as long as you let me know a day ahead of time that you are no longer interested then it doesn’t affect my plans and no harm was done.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Hmmmm . . . I'm gonna go against the grain here. Positive and Negative feedback to me should be reserved for completed transactions only.

• Positive - Buyer and seller agree the transaction went well. Good communication. Both parties happy with the purchase and sale.
• Negative - Buyer or seller had issue with the ITEM or Transaction. Seller did NOT disclose issue with the item. Buyer did not come prepared with proper documentation and the PPT could not be completed.

I sell a ton of stuff on FB Market, Next Door, Craigslist, Truck and car forums. People ghost it happens. Move on to the next buyer. I've had ~40ish PPT transactions on the "L" site with only two no shows after setting a meeting time. Both times I just hung out at the GS for a bit then went on about my day.

Next thing we'll ask for is a "Low Baller" button to hit, or a "Swindler" button for those $1500 Glocks. Lol

I agree with all of this, "ghosting" isn't a thing. Unless I show up to an FFL after the person confirms and actually physically doesn't show up, that would potentially be negative feedback worthy.

 

[ikeo1]

This thread is funny.

This thread man...

 

[Deleted member 16735]

The mods have been discussing ways to improve how we look at feedback. We want to encourage people to be better about making commitments.

One of the options is to allow for neutral feedback if you ghost. There will be a transition period where you can appeal to have it removed if you are verified only and only once.

The point where it would count is if you say “I’ll take it” in DM’s or in the comment on the listing. It has to be clear that you commit. There’s no screenshots or personal info being sent around. That’s the cue for us to know you committed.

We’ve been seeing a lot more in the feedback like this and it’s hard to verify and we don’t want to get in the middle. Make it simple if that’s there on the listing or in DM’s you can leave feedback.

The question is it fair for the other person to leave feedback too? One way feedback doesn’t seem fair. Thoughts? Vote up top and Comment below

The way ebay works is feedback is only one way if it's negative, otherwise there's retaliatory feedback. But along with this you need to be able to contest the initial negative feedback. There's likely not an easy way that avoids moderation of some kind. saying "ill take it" isn't really meaningful, if I'm selling something Im often talking to like 5 people that are interested and the one who gets it is the one that meets me. They all want it, they all called dibs but sometimes they can't make it to the FFL on the schedule I need or want and someone else can.

 

[JRAUS]

The way ebay works is feedback is only one way if it's negative, otherwise there's retaliatory feedback. But along with this you need to be able to contest the initial negative feedback. There's likely not an easy way that avoids moderation of some kind. saying "ill take it" isn't really meaningful, if I'm selling something Im often talking to like 5 people that are interested and the one who gets it is the one that meets me. They all want it, they all called dibs but sometimes they can't make it to the FFL on the schedule I need or want and someone else can.

I 100% agree. Whoever fits in the schedule gets it.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Just last month I was selling something and we were to the point of texting and arranging a time to meet, he was kinda far north but was trying to come down in a few days. I didn't hear back from him again and sold it to someone else. If he messaged me again I wouldn't even know it was the same guy because I don't even care and I've already forgotten who it was. No one owes you anything and vice versa. You don't have to sell it to anyone and they don't have to save it for the first guy that messages you. If you are having trouble finding buyers just lower your price, just about anything is sellable for the right price.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

You're just trying to justify a lesser level of ghosting. Making a commitment to buy and then disappearing is not as egregious as committing to a time and place to meet and not showing up, but it's still ghosting if you don't tell the seller you've changed your mind.

We all get to decide what level of ty behavior we're okay with and you've made it abundantly clear where you stand on the issue. That's fine. The thing I honestly can't wrap my head around is your apparent belief that nobody else is allowed to feel differently than you do and have the ability to call out ty behavior that they're not willing to let slide.

If you don't want to use the feature, don't. But trying to justify why nobody else should have that option is what speaks volumes here.

This is the very thing in question.

What YOU think is a "commitment to buy" really isn't. The way I see it, it's all just noise until a commitment to MEET has been agreed-upon by all parties. People come and look, they ask questions, parties may talk by voice, and there's a feeling-out period. Sometimes people aren't sure, or there are dependencies, or life happens, all things I shouldn't need to explain to an adult.

It's ALL JUST NOISE until a commitment to meet has been made. And note, I am NOT defending ghosting anyone. I'm simply saying that happens, and when it does one should get over it, just like you should get over the fact that I disagree with you, which you ironically are trying to pin on me as if that's my position. The way you're trying to impeach my character as a NEW person on this site with zero feedback is over-the-top, and you should really just chill and absorb the culture here for a bit.

I don't mind the disagreement, but you're the one attacking me personally. I'm only going to give you a few more chances to be honest and reasonable before I simply block you. I don't think you're arguing honestly, and you seem stuck on these silly strawman arguments. Are you trying to make a name for yourself here? This is not the way to do it, especially since you think you're speaking for a group.

Bottom line, make a plan to meet when you want to buy or sell something. Everything else is just noise, and people change their minds. I am not defending ghosting as a practice (we Gen-Xers tend not to do that) but I don't think the site needs to track an implied/declared "I'll take it" and then "didn't follow through" as if the site has any hope of policing that. This is also why I don't support a "dibs" functionality. *I* choose my seller based on a plurality of metrics, not the least of which is someone's communication, intelligence, respect, integrity, and intellectual honesty—something you're apparently still learning.

Finally, your tactic here is FAR WORSE than someone "ghosting" in comms, because I think you're a dishonest person making strawman personal attacks. You'll be on ignore eventually, but let's see how you do with this response. See if you can break out of your loop, and see if you can argue the POINT instead of making strawman ad hominem attacks against me.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I would like an "Ill take it button" that requires an acknowledgement that if you back out it will automatically trigger a neutral rating. On the seller end there should be a button to press +/- on the "Ill take it" If "+" nothing happens and regular feedback as usual if "-" automatic system generated neutral.

Additionally when you acknowledge there should be a field where you state which item in an ad you want.

It's never that simple for me. Someone pressing an "I'll take it" button is just the start of the conversation, which is no different than signaling interest in a DM. I do not honor a 'lock' on an item I am selling simply because someone hit a button before any money has changed hands, and I reserve the right to refuse to sell to someone who triggers any number of warning flags.

If I have to meet someone in person, I really have to want to sell to them or, I can't find them repulsive, shady, dishonest, a lowballer, aggressive, etc. There is some vetting involved via written text and usually by voice. It's VERY obvious to me after 57 years of dealing with humans who the weirdos and flakes are, and honestly I get turned off by lazy or low-effort writing.

Anyone can DM me if they want a gun I'm selling and I will always choose the buyer on a variety of metrics.

 

[ikeo1]

It's never that simple for me. Someone pressing an "I'll take it" button is just the start of the conversation, which is no different than signaling interest in a DM. I do not honor and 'lock' on an item I am selling simply because someone hit a button, and I reserve the right to refuse to sell to someone who triggers any number of warning flags.

If I have to meet someone in person, I really have to want to sell to them or, I can't find them repulsive, shady, dishonest, a lowballer, aggressive, etc. There is some vetting involved via written text and usually by voice. It's VERY obvious to me after 57 years of dealing with humans who the weirdos and flakes are, and honestly I get turned off by lazy or low-effort writing. I don't always tell people that but it makes a difference.

Anyone can DM me if they want a gun I'm selling and I will always choose the buyer on a variety of metrics.

So you're completely ok with someone wasting your time after they said they'd take it? Arrange to meet and then nothing the day of?

 

[ikeo1]

If you guys notice.. there's one discussion for buyers to be more responsible and one discussion to make sellers more responsible. I hope you can see we're asking to improve on both ends based on what we've seen and people complain about. Though people use the classifieds, this is really a discussion and information portal first so you can get all the information you can. Keep the discussion not too personal and let's try to improve this as a community.

Your input has weight here. Don't make things personal, just work through the process for what makes sense and is fair for people. We want to minimize guessing and make sure we scale these community rules in an efficient way. This is 100% self reported honor system.