What will Glock do in California?

[Deleted member 16735]

Laughing out loud!... This is the stupid video for "proof" ive seen yet. You can do this with a glock.

no you can't because a glock has a trigger safety.

 

[SomeOne]

So you wanted them to admit the platform is bad even if there is nothing wrong with it........ because someone told you it was?

The big and small agencies switch from P320 to other brands. You can call them stupid all day long, but each call damages Sig reputation further down.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

The big and small agencies switch from P320 to other brands. You can call them stupid all day long, but each call damages Sig reputation further down.

That’s right, this does more damage to Sig’s reputation than some guy pinning the trigger back and forth to have a discharge as proof. Almost every pistol will dischange, and you can do this with Glocks too, but that doesn’t necessarily show that the pistol is inherently bad.

 

[SomeOne]

That’s right, this does more damage to Sig’s reputation than some guy pinning the trigger back and forth to have a discharge as proof. Almost every pistol will dischange, and you can do this with Glocks too, but that doesn’t necessarily show that the pistol is inherently bad.

I am not arguing the technical details. Yet, Sig P320 discharges are all over the news and the departments across the country ditch the brand. This is the issue Sig dropped.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

That’s right, this does more damage to Sig’s reputation than some guy pinning the trigger back and forth to have a discharge as proof. Almost every pistol will dischange, and you can do this with Glocks too, but that doesn’t necessarily show that the pistol is inherently bad.

Again, you can't do this with a Glock because of the trigger dingus.. The thinking is that some movement, getting into a car, jumping, running, etc, could be enough to move the trigger and have this happen. There are hundreds of reports of this including hundreds in a class action lawsuit that keeps growing. The main thing is though that we have hundreds of reports including some very credible second hand ones in the competitive shooting community, and instead of doing something to actually show us that it's safe, they dismiss it. You can call it stupid but it certainly makes me trust you less personally when you just act like there's nothing credible. It's credible until we have proof that it's not.

 

[Calibreeze]

It's not only about the aesthetics, also it diminishes the performance. Mag disconnect literally disables your firearm. It's not a big issue for the paper tagret plinkers, but could become problematic in a life-threatening situation.

That may be true. I have never had any problems with any of my pistols regarding any of those features. Or have I heard of anyone having any problems with the features. I figure. I’m running my pistol hard at the range vs once in my lifetime that I’ll have to use my pistol for self defense purposes. If I were to do the math. It would probably equate to 1 in 10,000,000 chance that my pistol will fail due to the features mentioned. It’s a risk vs benefit factor. These safety measures that are in place benefit the consumers more than not. If the manufacturers believed that these safety measures would hinder the firearms operation. I would conclude that the manufacturers would find alternative methods to make the firearm safe.

I honestly believe that a good number of people believe that these features are unwarranted and not necessary thus creating this false narrative that many people have bought into. And the fall out is that many are selling a pistol that are “better or more desirable” due to the lack of these features. It’s a money grab and/or a matter of preference, my friend.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

I am not arguing the technical details. Yet, Sig P320 discharges are all over the news and the departments across the country ditch the brand. This is the issue Sig dropped.

Last week I spent 4 days at SIG SAUER headquarters in Portsmouth, NH. I met with CEO Ron Cohen and senior leadership, toured the factory, and sat down with assembly team members and several engineers. We spent many hours digging through the data on the P320 — everything from the Canadian Army and Austrian military reports to the Danish military review, the FBI report, and dozens of other documents.

I also had a full technical breakdown from SIG engineers and spent time on the assembly floor talking directly with the people who build these pistols. We deliberately tried to recreate the failure scenarios that have been discussed publicly — spent hours testing and discussing whether the pistol could be made to ND under normal handling. What I came away with is this: the platform, when assembled and handled as designed, is fundamentally sound.

There is a lot of heat in the 2A community about this platform — and frankly much of the headline-making rhetoric is driven by emotion rather than the full set of facts. I had a candid lunch with Ron Cohen where I didn’t hold back; he listened, answered questions, and helped me track down answers with his team. That willingness to engage in direct, technical conversation mattered.

My takeaway: there are obviously issues worth investigating and addressing where they exist, but the broad brush panic I’ve seen online doesn’t match what I observed in person after reviewing the data and talking to the engineers and factory staff. Facts and thorough testing matter more than soundbites. If you care about safety and accountability, demand transparency and data — not just headlines.

 

[flyhawaiian]

40 is dead. It has been lying dead on the side of the highway for years.

40 is dead. It has been lying dead on the side of the highway for years.

Do you have any insight into the models we will be getting? I saw you said we are getting the 43x but I’m curious what else to look forward to.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

Again, you can't do this with a Glock because of the trigger dingus.. The thinking is that some movement, getting into a car, jumping, running, etc, could be enough to move the trigger and have this happen. There are hundreds of reports of this including hundreds in a class action lawsuit that keeps growing. The main thing is though that we have hundreds of reports including some very credible second hand ones in the competitive shooting community, and instead of doing something to actually show us that it's safe, they dismiss it. You can call it stupid but it certainly makes me trust you less personally when you just act like there's nothing credible. It's credible until we have proof that it's not.

Not a single lawsuit has been won based on the platform being bad or faulty, but rather by an anti-gun firm that argued that Sig advertised the trigger as double action on one marketing sheet that it was nothing more than that.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

Do you have any insight into the models we will be getting? I saw you said we are getting the 43x but I’m curious what else to look forward to.

Yes, I actually got involved in discussing what models to bring to market in California.

 

[SomeOne]

Last week I spent 4 days at SIG SAUER headquarters in Portsmouth, NH. I met with CEO Ron Cohen and senior leadership, toured the factory, and sat down with assembly team members and several engineers. We spent many hours digging through the data on the P320 — everything from the Canadian Army and Austrian military reports to the Danish military review, the FBI report, and dozens of other documents.

I also had a full technical breakdown from SIG engineers and spent time on the assembly floor talking directly with the people who build these pistols. We deliberately tried to recreate the failure scenarios that have been discussed publicly — spent hours testing and discussing whether the pistol could be made to ND under normal handling. What I came away with is this: the platform, when assembled and handled as designed, is fundamentally sound.

There is a lot of heat in the 2A community about this platform — and frankly much of the headline-making rhetoric is driven by emotion rather than the full set of facts. I had a candid lunch with Ron Cohen where I didn’t hold back; he listened, answered questions, and helped me track down answers with his team. That willingness to engage in direct, technical conversation mattered.

My takeaway: there are obviously issues worth investigating and addressing where they exist, but the broad brush panic I’ve seen online doesn’t match what I observed in person after reviewing the data and talking to the engineers and factory staff. Facts and thorough testing matter more than soundbites. If you care about safety and accountability, demand transparency and data — not just headlines.

I completely see your point. I am sure Sig P320 is a great gun, however Sig didn't adequately respond to the issues reported. Their stance was to ignore, deny, then settle the law suits privately. That damaged Sig reputation completely. No agency wants to work with Sig on the issue remediation. They know Sig will deny everything until brought over to a court. So, the first documented ND of one faulty P320 makes the agency switch the brand right away. Why is that? Because Sig didn't adequately respond to the issue in the first place.

Feel free to pass it on Mr. Cohen as a community follow up.

 

[flyhawaiian]

Yes, I actually got involved in discussing what models to bring to market in California.

When do you think we will find out exactly what will be coming?

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

When do you think we will find out exactly what will be coming?

Im now under a Sig NDA so cant discuss more

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

I completely see your point. I am sure Sig P320 is a great gun, however Sig didn't adequately respond to the issues reported. Their stance was to ignore, deny, then settle the law suits privately. That damaged Sig reputation completely. No agency wants to work with Sig on the issue remediation. They know Sig will deny everything until brought over to a court. So, the first documented ND of one faulty P320 makes the agency switch the brand right away. Why is that? Because Sig didn't adequately respond to the issue in the first place.

Feel free to pass it on Mr. Cohen as a community follow up.

There is no solution that would have satisfied the modern outrage culture.

 

[flyhawaiian]

Im now under a Sig NDA so cant discuss more

Understood thank you

 

[SomeOne]

There is no solution that would have satisfied the modern outrage culture.

There is, actually. It's just Sig took the wrong route and damaged the brand reputation to the point, various LEA are happy to drop off P320 from the ledger, write off the expenses and switch to another brand.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

There is, actually. It's just Sig took the wrong route and damaged the brand reputation to the point, various LEA are happy to drop off P320 from the ledger, write off the expenses and switch to another brand.

So what is the correct solution? I might be able to get you job at Sig

 

[SomeOne]

So what is the correct solution? I might be able to get you job at Sig

Why do you think I'd be interested working for Sig?
Anyway, the solution to deny, reject and then make private settlements backfired. You can tell Sig to try some better approach, like collaboration, issue acceptance and maybe some kind of volunteer recall? This way, the next LEA maybe (just maybe) decide to work with Sig on the issue resolution, instead of dropping Sig.
Any change in strategy will do good for them.

 

[Route66ShootingSportsPark]

Why do you think I'd be interested working for Sig?
Anyway, the solution to deny, reject and then make private settlements backfired. You can tell Sig to try some better approach, like collaboration, issue acceptance and maybe some kind of volunteer recall? Any change in strategy will do good for them.

Laughing out loud! that foolish

 

[SomeOne]

Laughing out loud! that foolish

You probably should apply for a job with them. You will perfectly fit their corporate culture.